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      /  Re: [Poll] Nibiru: What if?
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Poll : What do you think?
Plain simple paranoid BS
Interesting reading, still BS
Largely BS as Nibiru isn't nearby at this point
I'm open minded, could be true... But I'm sceptical
I think there's much truth in this
I'm convinced Nibiru/Planet X is looming nearby
Interesting gotta do some research
 
PosterThread
MikeB 
Re: [Poll] Nibiru: What if?
Posted on 8-Apr-2011 9:10:06
#161 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2003
Posts: 6483
From: Europe

@Kronos

Quote:
"Giants" are created when their bodies fail to stop producing growth-hormons at the end of puberty


In humans over-production of growth hormone will produce gigantism or acromegaly.

We can produce giants artifically by adding exra growth hormone and anabolics to a diet.

The most distinguishing feature of the alledged annunaki is that they are more muscular and bigger than the humans who lived at the time. Homo Sapiens living today in western countries are also giants compared to the bulk of past human beings here on earth. This has mostly to do with better nutrition and growth hormones used for raising livestock.

Assuming the annunaki are/were real, more technologically advanced and the war-like humanoid beings imagined. They may have developed for them near ideal nutrition and may have added well balanced hormones to their diet.

However assuming the Zetas are real, the annunaki were nowhere as technologically advanced as them.

Last edited by MikeB on 08-Apr-2011 at 11:05 AM.
Last edited by MikeB on 08-Apr-2011 at 10:03 AM.

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MikeB 
Re: [Poll] Nibiru: What if?
Posted on 8-Apr-2011 9:45:10
#162 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2003
Posts: 6483
From: Europe

1) Nibiru - Earth's known about most ancient surviving civilization is said to have encountered its passage.

2) Planet X - Searched for because of the irregularities in the orbits of the gas giant planets.

3) Nemesis - Searched for because perceived cycle of mass extinctions, sharp edges of oort clouds within binary systems similar to our solar system and binary / mutiple star systems is the norm rather than exception.

4) Tyche - Like Nemesis but used to explain Edna's orbit and perceived bias in the points of origin of long-period comets entering the inner solar system, which are clustered in a band inclined to the ecliptic.

If you combine this all together there is great evidence of Nibiru existing. The one and only thing speaking against it is that it is claimed not to be found yet.

But we know the governments would never lie to the general public!

Knowing is power, understanding is wisdom.

Last edited by MikeB on 08-Apr-2011 at 09:58 AM.
Last edited by MikeB on 08-Apr-2011 at 09:58 AM.

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BrianK 
Re: [Poll] Nibiru: What if?
Posted on 8-Apr-2011 12:15:10
#163 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2003
Posts: 7999
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA

@MikeB

5) Vulcan - Searched for because in Newtonian Gravity Mercury should have spiraled into the sun and met a firey death.

"Knowing is power, understanding is wisdom." == Good saying but any knowledge of the 4 planets you presented is useless in so far as they have produced ZERO results.

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Lou 
Re: [Poll] Nibiru: What if?
Posted on 8-Apr-2011 12:30:37
#164 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2004
Posts: 3744
From: Rhode Island

@Kronos

Quote:

Kronos wrote:
@Lou

[quote]
Lou wrote:

"Giants" are created when their bodies fail to stop producing growth-hormons at the end of puberty. Easy to be treated today and surley not anymore alien than any other gene-defect.

You just have to remember that the human gene still carries around trash accumulated over 1 billion years.

Yes, things like that are controlled by DNA...as is our general life expectancy. According to Sitchin, humans have been around for 100,000 years.

Quote:
But the real question has stayed unanswered, why ?

If you believe in all that conspiracy mumbo-jumbo, black-helicopters, Roswell, Area51, Bilderberg, NWO etc etc ..... WHY are they keeping it secret ?

Clearly you haven't investigated the subject enough. Alot of people and some governments are based upon religion. This would turn their perception of life upside down.

Quote:
Crystal-skulls were easily made with 19th century (probraly even older) technology so aslong as the don't find one in an Pharaos unopened tomb.....

What these theories really do is what all religions have done for the past 4000 years, take what you don't understand make up some nonsense to connect the dots, don't forget to add in some popular fears and hopes and than shout everybody down raising doubt.

There are much more ooparts than the crystal skull. Skulls have been found in coal etc... Skeptics only chose to fight the fights they believe they can win. Sitchin's translations document 440,000 years of events in this solar system. It's one congruent story. Skeptics only choose to nickel and dime individual moments of that story out of existence. They are missing the big picture. They also don't state their own beliefs because their own beliefs could just as easily be critisized, probably more so.

Last edited by Lou on 08-Apr-2011 at 12:33 PM.

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olegil 
Re: [Poll] Nibiru: What if?
Posted on 8-Apr-2011 13:02:19
#165 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Aug-2003
Posts: 5416
From: Work

@MikeB

What irregularities in the orbits of which gas giants?

Afaik, the only gas giant you could possibly mean is Uranus, which already in 1845 was postulated to be experiencing the tug of an unknown planet.

The problem with that is that this planet turned out to be Neptune, discovered in 1846.

So we can conclude that your Planet X is Neptune?

_________________
Idea for "cheap" card using P2040/41 running multiple OSes and/or SMP OSes.

Anyone interested?

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Plaz 
Re: [Poll] Nibiru: What if?
Posted on 8-Apr-2011 13:38:01
#166 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Oct-2003
Posts: 1527
From: Atlanta

Atlantis found, buried by Tsunami?

I've not made it through the entire thread yet, so forgive me if this is has already been mentioned. After serveral references to Atlantis I thought it would be interesting to add

Plaz

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T-J 
Re: [Poll] Nibiru: What if?
Posted on 8-Apr-2011 13:46:23
#167 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 1-Sep-2010
Posts: 596
From: Unknown

@Lou

Quote:
We've been thru this. I never said it was supposed to fly. Heck most of the paper airplanes I built as a kid were horrible, but the point is I knew I was basing them on a plane.


Interesting how you've dropped your notion of a 'snapped off tailplane'. Heh.


Quote:
You fail to read about the greenish glass. Meteors don't do that.


I did read about the 'greenish glass', in the article pertaining to the glass in the Libyan desert and its associated meteorite crater structures. It is nothing more than the fusion of sand grains due to extreme heat, such as that released when a mass impacts with the Earth. The hypothesis of meteorite impact is supported by the fact that the glass and the crater structure are contemporary (both ~21Ma), and by the discovery of meteorite fragments in context with these features.

There is no evidence in favour of nuclear explosion, so rational thinking people have no choice but to reject that hypothesis. If your religion depends on there being a nuclear war during the Early Miocene, well, you are of course free to believe that. But science doesn't support it.

Quote:
Yes, things like that are controlled by DNA...as is our general life expectancy. According to Sitchin, humans have been around for 100,000 years.


Disproved again, this time by the fossil record.


Quote:
There are much more ooparts than the crystal skull. Skulls have been found in coal etc... Skeptics only chose to fight the fights they believe they can win. Sitchin's translations document 440,000 years of events in this solar system. It's one congruent story. Skeptics only choose to nickel and dime individual moments of that story out of existence. They are missing the big picture. They also don't state their own beliefs because their own beliefs could just as easily be critisized, probably more so.


Modern science documents slightly over four billion years of Earth history, and a few billion more of the history of the Universe at large. Its one congruent story backed up with physical evidence for each 'chapter'. All of this evidence is catalogued and available at any of a great number of Natural History museums and suchlike. 'Skulls in coal' and similar inventions have been presented by crackpots and frauds, identified as hoaxes and fakes most often dating from the 19th Century. Just like the crystal skulls.

You Nibiru cranks have nothing to say that disproves any of this, or even provides evidence against it. You can only hold up the Holy Words of the Prophet Sitchin and repeat his mantras.

At the risk of repeating myself, I tell you Sitchin's translations are made-up. And all of his interpretations of artefacts are based on his made-up ideas. So using those interpretations to back up the translations that he used to make the interpretations is a stunning example of circular reasoning.

It isn't science.

Quote:
I think you just need to realize that you'll convince me of nothing. It's an open forum and you can keep reciting rhetoric from skeptics as often as you'd like.


So you admit that you are expressing a religious faith in the Prophet Sitchin? Admit that, and stop trying to pass your faith off as science, and I'll leave you to your delusion.

Keep trying to pass your claims off as science, and I'll keep using science to debunk them. It really is as simple as that.

Last edited by T-J on 08-Apr-2011 at 01:47 PM.

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Lou 
Re: [Poll] Nibiru: What if?
Posted on 8-Apr-2011 13:50:07
#168 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2004
Posts: 3744
From: Rhode Island

@Plaz

Quote:

Plaz wrote:
Atlantis found, buried by Tsunami?

I've not made it through the entire thread yet, so forgive me if this is has already been mentioned. After serveral references to Atlantis I thought it would be interesting to add

Plaz

I don't know how much stock I put in Atlantis, but I know "Noah's" Ark was found last year: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPpKnwh3AvE
Sumerian texts call him a different name of course. OMG an OOPART!

Last edited by Lou on 08-Apr-2011 at 01:51 PM.

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T-J 
Re: [Poll] Nibiru: What if?
Posted on 8-Apr-2011 13:55:13
#169 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 1-Sep-2010
Posts: 596
From: Unknown

@MikeB

Quote:

1) Nibiru - Earth's known about most ancient surviving civilization is said to have encountered its passage.
2) Planet X - Searched for because of the irregularities in the orbits of the gas giant planets. 3) Nemesis - Searched for because perceived cycle of mass extinctions, sharp edges of oort clouds within binary systems similar to our solar system and binary / mutiple star systems is the norm rather than exception.
4) Tyche - Like Nemesis but used to explain Edna's orbit and perceived bias in the points of origin of long-period comets entering the inner solar system, which are clustered in a band inclined to the ecliptic.

If you combine this all together there is great evidence of Nibiru existing. The one and only thing speaking against it is that it is claimed not to be found yet.


If you combine this together? You can't. Each of these proposed bodies is mutually exclusive. If you have Planet X in the form proposed by its nutty believers, you can't have Tyche. If you have Tyche, Nibiru in the form proposed by its true followers could not possibly exist.

And the only body on that list that is remotely current with modern astronomy is Tyche. It is a proposed possible companion object to the sun, orbiting with a period of 27 million years at a distance of just under 1 lightyear. Distant, but not distant enough to make itself a nuisance in any other solar system.

The study currently ongoing to provide a high-resolution IR scan of the entire sky will decide on Tyche one way or the other. If it does exist, Nibiru, Planet X and Nemesis are bunk. If it doesn't exist, it will have been disproved by a scan that would have also detected the other bodies, meaning that they are bunk anyway.

@Lou

Ah, wonderful! Another mysterious 'oopart', which the owners will not submit for peer review. On your own video, the description tells us that the team of 'evangelical archaeologists' (translation - more people who have decided based on unscientific sources what they want to believe, and who then go out and cherrypick objects to fit that story) refuse to reveal the location of the 'ark'.

Now, I wonder why that could be?

Last edited by T-J on 08-Apr-2011 at 01:56 PM.

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Lou 
Re: [Poll] Nibiru: What if?
Posted on 8-Apr-2011 14:07:34
#170 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2004
Posts: 3744
From: Rhode Island

@T-J

Quote:

T-J wrote:

@Lou

Ah, wonderful! Another mysterious 'oopart', which the owners will not submit for peer review. On your own video, the description tells us that the team of 'evangelical archaeologists' (translation - more people who have decided based on unscientific sources what they want to believe, and who then go out and cherrypick objects to fit that story) refuse to reveal the location of the 'ark'.

Now, I wonder why that could be?

There are other videos. The location is listed with longitude and latitude co-ordinates. I picked this video because it was the 1st one I found a few minutes ago. When I had looked more into it a few months ago there were more in-dept videos. It's rare that Turkey lets anybody into this region for any reason as it is.

It's interesting that it was the Chinese that discovered it. I believe there are more people born as geniuses in China than any other country. I think there was a report on this. They seem quit inquisitive and thirsty for knowledge...without religious blinds infront of their eyes.

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T-J 
Re: [Poll] Nibiru: What if?
Posted on 8-Apr-2011 14:17:54
#171 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 1-Sep-2010
Posts: 596
From: Unknown

@Lou

Quote:
It's interesting that it was the Chinese that discovered it. I believe there are more people born as geniuses in China than any other country. I think there was a report on this. They seem quit inquisitive and thirsty for knowledge...without religious blinds infront of their eyes.


My, what a strange comment. Faintly racist, I might even say.

And you may have noticed that the Chinese people in question are members of something called 'Noah's Ark Ministries International', funded by the Hong-Kong based outfit calling itself 'Media Evangelism'. Even if we accept your extremely simplistic assessment of China and its culture as 'without religious blinds', these particular people have willingly adopted the religious blinds of others.

As I have told you, now three times, if you want to have religious beliefs, fine. But don't try to pass them off as science, or I and the rest of the scientific community will continue to debunk you.

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MikeB 
Re: [Poll] Nibiru: What if?
Posted on 8-Apr-2011 14:27:10
#172 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2003
Posts: 6483
From: Europe

Quote:
@Daniel

Quote:
Why would 'planet x' have such a wildly different orbit to all the other planets?


It is estimated to have a much greater mass than our solar planets and travels far from the sun. Other far away stellar systems will effect its orbit with the sun. If you know the mass of the companion brown dwarf as well as the mass and orbits of the stellar systems around us, one could probably determine its most likely path through simulation.



And probably this causes a minor planet located far from the sun, such as pluto, to behave differently as well (due to the brown dwarf's orbit and push/pull).

Simulations have shown that the presence of a binary companion can actually improve the rate of planet formation within stable orbital zones by "stirring up" the protoplanetary disk, increasing the accretion rate of the protoplanets within. Our solar system is showing a lot of evidence things are being stirred up, hence the asteroid belt, comets, lots of debris and the scarred planets surfaces.


25 nearest star systems (bright stars)

- 50% binary stars
- 13% triple systems
- 4% multiple systems

The Sun is amongst the 10% biggest mass star of nearby stellar systems. It is found that higher mass stars are more likely to have a companion star.



The Sun however does not have an ignited companion star for sure (would be easily visible like those systems mentioned above). But it was estimated a majority of all the stars within our solar neighborhood are actually brown dwarfs, which are dim and hard to spot using ordinary telescopes. As of 2009 about 12 brown dwarf stars have been found within 32.6 light-years from the sun and was about the same amount of extrasolar planets found in total as extrasolar planets are extremely hard to detect.

It took until 2003 for astronomers to discover Epsilon Indi is not a soletary star, two brown dwarf stars (Ba is estimated to be 47 Jupiter masses, total luminosity just 0.002% that of the Sun) are orbiting around Epsilon Indi and were discovered at a mere distance of 10 light-days away from the primary star. The epislon Indi system is just located merely 11.8 light-years away from the sun (as seen in the map above).

Last edited by MikeB on 08-Apr-2011 at 02:36 PM.
Last edited by MikeB on 08-Apr-2011 at 02:35 PM.
Last edited by MikeB on 08-Apr-2011 at 02:28 PM.

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MikeB 
Re: [Poll] Nibiru: What if?
Posted on 8-Apr-2011 15:01:48
#173 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2003
Posts: 6483
From: Europe

@T-J

Quote:
If you combine this together? You can't.


As for the reasons why there should be an object, yes you can.

Quote:
And the only body on that list that is remotely current with modern astronomy is Tyche. It is a proposed possible companion object to the sun, orbiting with a period of 27 million years at a distance of just under 1 lightyear.


The sun is estimated to travel about 1328000 km/h If a brown dwarf star would travel around the sun half this speed that would mean it travels about 5820491200 km/year. Meaning in 13.5 million years it travelled the distance of 68545 lightyears (and at Jupiter's orbital speed this would still equal 2538 lightyears)! Should such an object be considered part of our solar system? I think not...

Last edited by MikeB on 08-Apr-2011 at 03:08 PM.
Last edited by MikeB on 08-Apr-2011 at 03:03 PM.

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T-J 
Re: [Poll] Nibiru: What if?
Posted on 8-Apr-2011 15:17:36
#174 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 1-Sep-2010
Posts: 596
From: Unknown

@MikeB

Quote:
As for the reasons why there should be an object, yes you can.


No, they are four (five if we add Vulcan ) different objects, each with mutually exclusive physical parameters. They can't be used as evidence for eachother, because the existence of any one would disprove the others.

Quote:
The sun is estimated to travel about 1328000 km/h If a brown dwarf star would travel around the sun half this speed that would mean it travels about 5820491200 km/year. Meaning in 13.5 million years it travelled the distance of 68545 lightyears (and at Jupiter's orbital speed this would still equal 2538 lightyears)! Should such an object be considered part of our solar system? I think not...


I think you're getting confused. What's Jupiter's orbital speed got to do with the price of chips? And its easier if we stick to one unit. Nothing wrong with standard index form to simplify big numbers in m/s.

Anyway, I tried to plough through your numbers, and there is no reason there why an object orbiting the sun at a distance of 1 lightyear with an orbital period of 27million years wouldn't be considered a part of the solar system. The key point is that it would be orbiting the sun. That's the entire definition of 'part of this solar system'.

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MikeB 
Re: [Poll] Nibiru: What if?
Posted on 8-Apr-2011 15:17:46
#175 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2003
Posts: 6483
From: Europe

@olegil

Quote:
Afaik, the only gas giant you could possibly mean is Uranus, which already in 1845 was postulated to be experiencing the tug of an unknown planet.

The problem with that is that this planet turned out to be Neptune, discovered in 1846.

So we can conclude that your Planet X is Neptune?


The lookout for Planet X started 1906. If you keep this in mind you won't make such mistakes.

"Following the discovery of the planet Neptune in 1846, there was considerable speculation that another planet might exist beyond its orbit. The search began in the mid-19th century but culminated at the start of the 20th with Percival Lowell's quest for Planet X. Lowell proposed the Planet X hypothesis to explain apparent discrepancies in the orbits of the gas giants, particularly Uranus and Neptune,[1] speculating that the gravity of a large unseen ninth planet could have perturbed Uranus enough to account for the irregularities.["

"In 1978, however, Pluto was found to be too small for its gravity to affect the gas giants, resulting in a brief search for a tenth planet. "

"the concept of Planet X has been revived by a number of astronomers to explain other anomalies observed in the outer Solar System."

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T-J 
Re: [Poll] Nibiru: What if?
Posted on 8-Apr-2011 15:22:44
#176 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 1-Sep-2010
Posts: 596
From: Unknown

@MikeB

Anomalies that have since been explained at least in part by correcting our estimates of the mass of Neptune and Uranus, courtesy of the Voyagers.

Remaining discrepancies are being investigated using the WISE project, which is scanning in the IR spectrum. The Tyche proposal is awaiting confirmation by WISE.

Also, remember the example of Vulcan, already mentioned. Discrepancies in the orbit of Mercury as explained by Newtonian physics were interpreted as evidence for another planet closer to the Sun. Then we developed better equations to more closely approximate the way the universe actually behaves (see general relativity), and that fixed the problem. No extra inner planet needed.

And of course in more recent years we've sent a probe to Mercury and off closer to the sun - no planet exists closer to the sun. Discrepancies in the maths doesn't automagically mean that there must be an extra planet, much less one with a magically inexplicable orbit populated by malevolent alien gods.

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MikeB 
Re: [Poll] Nibiru: What if?
Posted on 8-Apr-2011 15:35:08
#177 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2003
Posts: 6483
From: Europe

@T-J

Quote:
an orbital period of 27million years wouldn't be considered a part of the solar system


1 lightyear devided over 13.5 million years would mean a speed of 178 km/h. I travelled faster than that on the German highway...

That would mean it moves 200 times slower than the slowest gas giant in our solar system!

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MikeB 
Re: [Poll] Nibiru: What if?
Posted on 8-Apr-2011 15:51:06
#178 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2003
Posts: 6483
From: Europe

@T-J

Quote:
Remaining discrepancies are being investigated using the WISE project, which is scanning in the IR spectrum. The Tyche proposal is awaiting confirmation by WISE.


Officially WISE was put into hibernation on February 1, 2011. WISE is a NASA mission, NASA is controlled by the united states government. If the united states government doesn't want you to know, you won't know.

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Lou 
Re: [Poll] Nibiru: What if?
Posted on 8-Apr-2011 16:10:18
#179 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2004
Posts: 3744
From: Rhode Island

@T-J

Quote:

T-J wrote:
@Lou

Quote:
It's interesting that it was the Chinese that discovered it. I believe there are more people born as geniuses in China than any other country. I think there was a report on this. They seem quit inquisitive and thirsty for knowledge...without religious blinds infront of their eyes.


My, what a strange comment. Faintly racist, I might even say.

Really? Next you'll tell me the generally, Chinese people's eyes look no different than the typical person of anglo-saxxon decent...

Quote:
And you may have noticed that the Chinese people in question are members of something called 'Noah's Ark Ministries International', funded by the Hong-Kong based outfit calling itself 'Media Evangelism'. Even if we accept your extremely simplistic assessment of China and its culture as 'without religious blinds', these particular people have willingly adopted the religious blinds of others.

As I have told you, now three times, if you want to have religious beliefs, fine. But don't try to pass them off as science, or I and the rest of the scientific community will continue to debunk you.

Does it really matter if they have a religion or not? It's what's important what was actually found? I love how skeptics always side track the issue. Why would a non-religious person look for Noah's Ark? The point is that it has been found.

I am not religious...AT ALL. Just because I accept Sitchin's translations doesn't mean I am religious. I simply accept his interpretation of the history of man to around 500AD. Infact if you read and accept what he has to say about why religion exists, you'd stop being religious too. However I stopped being religious decades ago based on my own observations and conclusions. His translations that I've only come upon recently have only re-enforced that decision. "Science" is still pondering the missing link in the meantime and has offered no continuity. Only isolated scenerios. As I said before, I like his story better than your story.

It's funny, we go to school and accept history as it's told in a book written by equally opinionated people as the ones in the past and accept it at face value. History, if you recall is written by the victors of wars. How boring.

Are you religious? (I've asked you your views before but the typical skeptic always puts the focus back away from themselves... Critics rarely subject themselves to equal criticism.)

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T-J 
Re: [Poll] Nibiru: What if?
Posted on 8-Apr-2011 16:10:40
#180 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 1-Sep-2010
Posts: 596
From: Unknown

@MikeB

You are throwing numbers at me with no indication of how you're generating them. Organise them in a comprehensible format.

As regards Tyche, you are right to doubt its existence. Reputable astronomers are similarly sceptical, partly because the proposal is anything but settled. Some say 27 million years orbit, some say 1.8 million years. The range of masses is between 4 and 13 Jupiters and estimates of its distance from the sun vary between 5 and 50 thousand AU.

Once the thing has actually been directly observed, it will be much easier to constrain these physical parameters and determine exactly what it is, where its going and so on.

But its not on a 3700 year eccentric orbit. And it won't be coming anywhere near Earth. None of the proposed parameters allow for that.

Quote:
Officially WISE was put into hibernation on February 1, 2011. WISE is a NASA mission, NASA is controlled by the united states government. If the united states government doesn't want you to know, you won't know.


I know why WISE was put into hibernation.

Its because its finished its scan. No point leaving the damn thing switched on if all the pictures have already been taken. Goodness me, the level of paranoia here is simply staggering.

Now we have to wait for the scientists involved to finish looking at the data. If they find anything, there'll be articles in the peer-reviewed literature, have no fear. If they find nothing, there'll be just as many articles in the peer-reviewed literature on that, rest assured.

Of course, this won't calm your paranoia...

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