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      /  Annual Check-in
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PosterThread
cdimauro 
Re: Annual Check-in
Posted on 25-Aug-2015 17:24:14
#121 ]
Super Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 1832
From: Germany

@Turrican3

Quote:

Turrican3 wrote:

@cdimauro
Quote:
On the contrary, Windows has several common points.

Ok, now you've made me (genuinely) curious again.

Would you mind pointing to some of the things they have in common?

Some that come to my mind now:
- lack of "fork" to spawn processes. Windows has proper APIs to create new Processes and Threads;
- lack of "everything is a file" philosophy. Windows has specific objects and proper APIs for them;
- case insensitive filesystem;
- volumes and assigns, albeit they are limited to a single letter;
- hardware acceleration is used where possible. No stupid things like X11;
- audio, graphic, video have proper APIs. No "what kind of toolkit I've to use?" and related dependencies;
- solid and stable APIs and ABIs, with an eye to retrocompatibility;
- GUI-based, and GUI is a pervasive element of the UI;
- designed with the user at the center. Users aren't coders neither sysadmins nor they have a o.ses PhD;
- the command line has an high coherency (and readability) for parameters;
- no "owner, group, other" flags sadism for resources;

For sure I miss some other things, but I stop here.

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iggy 
Re: Annual Check-in
Posted on 25-Aug-2015 17:31:51
#122 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2010
Posts: 1175
From: Bear, Delaware USA

@cdimauro

Yes, I'd have to lump my preference in with you.
I too prefer Windows over Linux and I'm typing this on a Win10 system right now.

Linux can be a pain if its not tweaked just right.
And I prefer the product of a wealth thief over one who gives his work away (just the capitalist in me - sorry).

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Turrican3 
Re: Annual Check-in
Posted on 25-Aug-2015 20:31:57
#123 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 20-Jun-2003
Posts: 297
From: Italy

@cdimauro
Quote:
Some that come to my mind now [...]

Thanks again.
You clearly have a solid knowledge of (likely) both OSes, while on the other hand mine has been a mostly* user-perspective "feeling" so there is little I can argue from a purely technical point of view.

* = actually, I do have a decent programming experience on both platforms, but that was/is mostly high level or even very high level stuff so that I never really had to gather a deeper understanding of what lies underneath. Not that it would hurt anyway... but I'm running out of digressions just for today so I'll leave it at that.

Last edited by Turrican3 on 25-Aug-2015 at 08:33 PM.

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cdimauro 
Re: Annual Check-in
Posted on 26-Aug-2015 6:32:47
#124 ]
Super Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 1832
From: Germany

@Turrican3: also as a developer, you can imagine how much I like to work with tools like Visual Studio, just to give the most known one. Another very good reason to use Windows instead of Linux.

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wawa 
Re: Annual Check-in
Posted on 26-Aug-2015 7:50:34
#125 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 5730
From: Unknown

@Turrican3

Quote:
Again, since English is not my native language, I'm not sure if you're somehow implying that my opinions were trying to stir things up: I can genuinely assure it wasn't intended (that is, assuming someone could actually argue it was the case, which I believe it was definitely NOT)


it isnt my native llanguage either, as its easy to spot.

no, it wasnt my intention to imply that your intention was stirring things up. but these kind of threads end up in fights, since there is nothing constructive to discuss.

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Turrican3 
Re: Annual Check-in
Posted on 26-Aug-2015 10:27:50
#126 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 20-Jun-2003
Posts: 297
From: Italy

@cdimauro
Yep, it seems a powerfool tool indeed.
I've been a LabVIEW guy for almost 20 years now though so my experience with that is quite limited to say the least (a couple of small subroutines written now and then with VS Express, nothing more than that).

@wawa
No problem.
It's a pity that people can't discuss without ending up in fights but well, I guess there's little we can do, right? :-\

Last edited by Turrican3 on 26-Aug-2015 at 10:29 AM.

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TRIPOS 
Re: Annual Check-in
Posted on 27-Aug-2015 11:55:39
#127 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 839
From: Unknown

@OlafS25

Quote:
Aros and MorphOS when running both on X86 or x64 will be very different because there are different concepts and ideas behind.


Yes indeed, MorphOS will then be "NG" making use of the H/W potential...

Quote:
MorphOS will break with anything from the past and thus needs adapted new software for it.


New S/W isn't necessarily a bad thing...

Quote:
there are only few 3rd party developer supporting MorphOS.


They won't get more with the current path, that's for sure!

In fact, staying on the dead/dying PPC platform only, without even the basic contemporary features everyone expects from an OS today, can only lead in one direction, if you add enough time to the equation.

The MorphOS team has exhausted the PPC option now. The OS is probably as mature as it can ever become, considering the strict obedience to the rules that defines Amiga (and that has really been holding things back IMHO, while of course having been its prime feature).

At this late point in the game, the choice is about either moving forward at a path at a higher level, or to roll over and die. I'm glad they aren't choosing the latter!

Quote:
it will accellerate the development that the different OSs are more and more becoming different making it difficult to support more than one platform.


It remains to be seen how it will turn out in practice. I expect most of the current MorphOS API will still be there, with necessary modifications and additions according to the new features and changed rules of course. It remains to be seen how much work it will actually require to port an Amiga application that doesn't make use of things like SMP etc, but naturally still needs to cope with the changed rules in MorphOS "NG" environment compared to the ones defining "Amiga". But it's not like MorphOS is going POSIX or anything, this is a safe bet considering what has been said on the subject by almost all of the MorphOS developers. And while the NG MorphOS API may require a somewhat different way of thinking by Amiga developers, it will also offer a great deal of new possibilities simply not available on any other "Amiga-ish" platform. So let's see how it plays out in the end...

Quote:
Up to now Aros and MorphOS were still relative similar (from a programmer point of view)


You could easily develop a 68k program which binaries will run fine on both Amiga, MorphOS and OS4, but will require a recompile (at the very least) to run on AROS x86. Well either this, or to be run sandboxed. Seems like a similar situation to MorphOS "NG" IMHO; Amiga applications will at the very least have to be recompiled or run sandboxed. How much adoption/porting that will be needed, remains to be seen. Too early to draw any conclusions IMHO.

Having said that, I personally hope that once they have decided to break from the backwards compatibility requirement (which they now have!), that they will keep things as clean and as free of legacy constraints as possible. A fresh new slate, future proof and full of possibilities!

Quote:
So even if they manage to develope a modern MorphOS supporting up to date features who will support it except the OS developers?


We'll see. Everyone who likes developing S/W for MorphOS I suppose? With the potential addition of any "outsider" developers who wouldn't in a million years have joined up on the current MorphOS/PPC platform?

You look at "going truly NG" as being a door closer. But maybe it will become the door opener for a future evolution that the current "not really NG" MorphOS/AROS/OS4 never turned out to be?



Quote:
For me the wrong direction.


So what do you suggest at this point then?

Keep walking in the same tracks forever in a circle, while the PPC desktop platform fades further and further into history and OS's that lacks even the basic contemporary OS features looses even more relevance to the world? I mean, couldn't OS4 handle this task alone?

What changes? Amiga retro enthusiasts will still have real Amiga's and a full selection of real Workbench'es to choose from, Cloanto has made sure of this (both thumbs up! ). "Almost NG" enthusiasts will still have OS4 (and a PPC legacy fork of MorphOS, if such will exist), and PPC enthusiasts can continue to dream about any future underspecced PPC machines from AeonKit that they will never afford in the end. AROS for Open Source enthusiasts. Everything will be just like before. Options for everyone.

What's so bad about MorphOS trying to become a TRUE Next Generation "Amiga-ish" platform, with all the contemporary rather basic OS features finally brought into an Amiga context, future proof, and making full use of today's best desktop (and laptop) H/W platforms?

Maybe some people will actually want this, and prefer this?

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TRIPOS 
Re: Annual Check-in
Posted on 27-Aug-2015 11:56:42
#128 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 839
From: Unknown

@Kicko

Quote:

Kicko wrote:
@TRIPOS

x86 sounds interesting. Dualboot with MorphOS and whatever system one like, like windows/os4classic, linux, aros whatever. One machine for all :)


Exactly!

And what's the alternative to x86, really?

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cdimauro 
Re: Annual Check-in
Posted on 27-Aug-2015 16:41:10
#129 ]
Super Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 1832
From: Germany

@TRIPOS

Quote:

TRIPOS wrote:
@OlafS25

It remains to be seen how it will turn out in practice. I expect most of the current MorphOS API will still be there, with necessary modifications and additions according to the new features and changed rules of course. It remains to be seen how much work it will actually require to port an Amiga application that doesn't make use of things like SMP etc, but naturally still needs to cope with the changed rules in MorphOS "NG" environment compared to the ones defining "Amiga". But it's not like MorphOS is going POSIX or anything, this is a safe bet considering what has been said on the subject by almost all of the MorphOS developers. And while the NG MorphOS API may require a somewhat different way of thinking by Amiga developers, it will also offer a great deal of new possibilities simply not available on any other "Amiga-ish" platform. So let's see how it plays out in the end...

It's not that easy. Try to think a "modernized" Amiga o.s. which lacks Forbid/Permit, Disable/Enable, SetFunction, etc., which hides (or at least make read-only) many fields on ExecBase, GfxBase, IntuitionBase, etc., and which enabled memory protection and resource tracking. I don't think that a recompile or some simple changes will be enough to have the old software running on the new platform, even if it's very much Amiga-like/inspired.

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