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PosterThread
blizz1220 
Re: Annual Check-in
Posted on 24-Aug-2015 9:20:39
#101 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2013
Posts: 437
From: Unknown

@TRIPOS

Lol

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pavlor 
Re: Annual Check-in
Posted on 24-Aug-2015 9:56:40
#102 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8415
From: Unknown

@TRIPOS

Quote:
Well, there is only one product on the market bearing the name "AmigaOS", and this is OS4.


True!

Quote:
AmigaOS is OS4 and nothing else. Hyperion has an exclusive name license for this. Nothing else can be called AmigaOS, only their OS4.


True!

Quote:
The original 68k OS for Amiga computer is marketed under the name "Workbench" these days.


True!

Quote:
But AmigaOS = OS4, nothing else.


True!


Never imagined I will agree with you 4 times in one post!

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OlafS25 
Re: Annual Check-in
Posted on 24-Aug-2015 10:02:45
#103 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5078
From: Unknown

@pavlor


and worse nothing to disagree

dubious, very dubious

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itix 
Re: Annual Check-in
Posted on 24-Aug-2015 10:04:02
#104 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2004
Posts: 3390
From: Freedom world

@Turrican3

Quote:

So the idea was about a cheap "AmigaOS4 box". I hope I cleared it up.


Cheap AmigaOS4 exists: it is called WinUAE. And AFAIK, Classic edition of OS4 has outnumbered all other versions.

_________________
Amiga Developer
Amiga 500, Efika, Mac Mini and PowerBook

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Turrican3 
Re: Annual Check-in
Posted on 24-Aug-2015 12:20:13
#105 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 20-Jun-2003
Posts: 297
From: Italy

@cdimauro
Quote:
What do mean with "Amiga"?

I'm afraid this has been discussed to death as well, hasn't it?

So I'll just say: for me, there is no Amiga anymore.
What we have now is just a couple of hardware and/or software offerings that more or less resemble what the Amiga was, but none of which comes close to do all and every thing I liked about it.

Hell, it could be argued that nowadays the closest thing to an Amiga... is a PC, but I find Windows a little bit too bloated, and Linux, while definitely neater, is not there yet. That's a digression though, since as I said before I got extremely disillusioned after CBM went bankrupt, and I didn't spend any significant time trying to dig into any other operating system after that. Who knows, maybe someday I'll find out about a brand new OS that will give me a similar spark.

@itix
Quote:
Cheap AmigaOS4 exists: it is called WinUAE.

I'm aware of that (and the MorphOS alternative as well - quick'n'dirty proof for both, sorry for the poor image quality) but I'm not sure that would really qualify as "cheap", and that's barring the fact that, as far as I understand, we're in a somewhat grey area here due to copyright issues.

I was thinking more about something anyone could buy like, I don't know, a Raspberry Pi or something like that (but NOT necessarily with that hardware... it was just to get the idea) complete with the OS license.

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iggy 
Re: Annual Check-in
Posted on 24-Aug-2015 13:06:29
#106 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2010
Posts: 1175
From: Bear, Delaware USA

@TRIPOS

Yes only one entity has the right to market AmigaOS. bplan and Genesis were trying to secure that when things went South and Bill managed to secure the rights to the Amiga trademark and contracted Hyperion to write OS4.
Old history. And not that important.
What is interesting is the contention that OS4 has a better chance of success than MorphOS.
Frankly, due to the high cost of entry, I'd be surprised if the number of OS4 licenses sold is even close to the number of MorphOS licenses sold.
And MorphOS runs on more platforms.

As to legacy compatibility, OS4 might actually have a slight edge, and a future migration to X86 might eliminate that compatibility in MorphOS.

In any case, we share two platforms, the PegasosII and the SAM460.
Both OS's will be supported on the upcoming X5000.
And both OS' currently run only on PPC platforms.

So, the question still is, how do we obtain a lower cost entry system for those that insist on new hardware?

PPC? As stated before, I'd like to use a Freescale T10XX.
X64? Lots of good choices. I like AMD APUs.

MorphOS for X64 is already in development, but it would not be a competitor for OS4 if that migrated to X64.

Competition was never really the intention of the MorphOS development team.
They were there first, and their idea was to build a better OS, not a PPC port of OS3.1.

Last edited by iggy on 24-Aug-2015 at 02:12 PM.

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iggy 
Re: Annual Check-in
Posted on 24-Aug-2015 13:09:17
#107 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2010
Posts: 1175
From: Bear, Delaware USA

@cdimauro

I haven't been following the Xeon series, which is unusual as one system I own uses two four core Xeon processors from the Core2 era.
Thanks for the info.

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OlafS25 
Re: Annual Check-in
Posted on 24-Aug-2015 13:10:43
#108 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5078
From: Unknown

@iggy

X64? Decision already done?

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iggy 
Re: Annual Check-in
Posted on 24-Aug-2015 14:14:57
#109 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2010
Posts: 1175
From: Bear, Delaware USA

@OlafS25

Yes, it was announced awhile ago.
X64 not ARM.
But we are not likely to get that much info prior to release.
And the PPC variant is likely to continue to be used, whether it continues to be updated or not.

Last edited by iggy on 24-Aug-2015 at 02:15 PM.

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OlafS25 
Re: Annual Check-in
Posted on 24-Aug-2015 14:19:37
#110 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5078
From: Unknown

@iggy


geit said that the transition including adding all the new features will need years absorbing all resources. They have already announced X5000 support so I assume real work will start after that is done (including bugfixes). And then there will be a long period without updates. But of course the PPC version is working and will so in future.

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wawa 
Re: Annual Check-in
Posted on 24-Aug-2015 15:02:52
#111 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 5714
From: Unknown

@Turrican3

Quote:
I hope I cleared it up.


yes, so as expected, since you have admitted being lurking here, you actually must know the answer to the most of questions you are asking.

in short, there definitely will be no cheap os4 (_native_) hardware, especially not under $100. nothing to add. case closed. whatever this thread is supposed to lead to beyond that fact, is simply further declarations of dreams and hopes and further animosity between the factions.

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TRIPOS 
Re: Annual Check-in
Posted on 24-Aug-2015 16:28:58
#112 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 814
From: Unknown

@OlafS25

Quote:
geit said that the transition including adding all the new features will need years absorbing all resources. They have already announced X5000 support so I assume real work will start after that is done (including bugfixes). And then there will be a long period without updates. But of course the PPC version is working and will so in future.


The "Next Generation" MorphOS was announced publicly by Fab at Alchimie 111111 (the ones is the date it occured): "So yes indeed, within a few years, we will change the architecture." Not an "if", but "when" (within a few years). That is almost FOUR YEARS ago now. Development to happen in a Virtual Machine, where they'd "get into the 64 bit compatibility to prepare the ground".

There has been a considerable development put into the current OS during the past years, with many big releases, so the "Next Generation" is obviously being developed in parallel.

At that point it was not known if it was going to be ARM or x64 (or both?). In April this year, bigfoot made the first (?) public statement that it's going to be AMD64/x64/x86-64 (call it what you want, it's different names for the same thing): "I've mentioned it before, but I'll happily mention it again: When MorphOS gets ported to AMD64..." He also said that they will upon release support at least one family of CPU's and GPU's, it will be both Desktop and Laptop, and that they will make sure that the H/W is available.

Not even two weeks ago, jacadcaps spoke about the Next Generation MorphOS and he said that we will "continue seeing small improvements in the current OS in the meantime".

So, a parallel development indeed, with continued releases of the current OS while it happens!

One key technology before a Next Generation OS could be released is obviously GFX drivers for the latest Radeon's. This is obviously being worked on, seemingly "from the bottom up". Current MorphOS release fully supports the R200 up to the X1000 series of cards (up to X1950 Pro). It also added rudimentary framebuffer only support (no hardware 2D/3D acceleration) for some Radeon HD graphics cards (up to Radeon HD 7570), which signals some ambitions. More to follow, no doubt, both in models and supported features.

MorphOS 3.10 could be the release where we will see more on the GFX driver front. It was also said that MorphOS 3.10 would be the earliest possible release with AmigaOne X5000 support (not saying that it will, of course!)...

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Kicko 
Re: Annual Check-in
Posted on 24-Aug-2015 16:39:55
#113 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 19-Jun-2004
Posts: 5006
From: Sweden

@TRIPOS

x86 sounds interesting. Dualboot with MorphOS and whatever system one like, like windows/os4classic, linux, aros whatever. One machine for all :)

Last edited by Kicko on 24-Aug-2015 at 04:40 PM.

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iggy 
Re: Annual Check-in
Posted on 25-Aug-2015 0:28:20
#114 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2010
Posts: 1175
From: Bear, Delaware USA

@TRIPOS

Um, we are already at V 3.9.
But yes, you can count on the video drivers improving.
The driver for X1xxx cards is particularly neat in that one of the developers was working with a PC X1950Pro AGP video card, so while it would not display OpenFirmware prompts these cards can be used in a Mac under MorphOS 3.9 without re-flashing.
And you will probably see lots of other enhancements.
One thing I'd like to see is SMP support for processes running outside of Abox.

Last edited by iggy on 25-Aug-2015 at 12:30 AM.

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cdimauro 
Re: Annual Check-in
Posted on 25-Aug-2015 8:57:36
#115 ]
Super Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 1832
From: Germany

@Turrican3

Quote:

Turrican3 wrote:
@cdimauro
Quote:
What do mean with "Amiga"?

I'm afraid this has been discussed to death as well, hasn't it?

So I'll just say: for me, there is no Amiga anymore.
What we have now is just a couple of hardware and/or software offerings that more or less resemble what the Amiga was, but none of which comes close to do all and every thing I liked about it.

Hell, it could be argued that nowadays the closest thing to an Amiga... is a PC, but I find Windows a little bit too bloated, and Linux, while definitely neater, is not there yet. That's a digression though, since as I said before I got extremely disillusioned after CBM went bankrupt, and I didn't spend any significant time trying to dig into any other operating system after that.

I had a similar experience and feeling, except for the Windows vs Linux: I prefer the former.
Quote:
Who knows, maybe someday I'll find out about a brand new OS that will give me a similar spark.

Try AROS: it runs on a PC, but implements the same Amiga o.s. 3.1 APIs (and a bit more), and costs zero euro.

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Turrican3 
Re: Annual Check-in
Posted on 25-Aug-2015 11:37:36
#116 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 20-Jun-2003
Posts: 297
From: Italy

@cdimauro
Quote:
except for the Windows vs Linux: I prefer the former.

This is really interesting, I would have never figured it out an "ex" Amigan could favour Windows over Linux.

To each his own I guess.
(PS: I'll try to have a look at AROS again, it's been literally ages since the first, and also last time I did it)

@wawa
Quote:
so [...] you actually must know the answer to the most of questions you are asking.

Actually, I don't think so. :-\

Yes, nowadays I just lurk here, but - for example - as I already said I knew absolutely nothing about Mr. Dickinson's actual financial investment figures (I have to guess lurking is not the word that best describes how I've been keeping myself informed about the Amiga market for many years now... maybe casual browsing?)

You can tell my disillusionment just by having a look at my post history.

Again, since English is not my native language, I'm not sure if you're somehow implying that my opinions were trying to stir things up: I can genuinely assure it wasn't intended (that is, assuming someone could actually argue it was the case, which I believe it was definitely NOT)

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pavlor 
Re: Annual Check-in
Posted on 25-Aug-2015 11:54:13
#117 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8415
From: Unknown

@Turrican3

Quote:
This is really interesting, I would have never figured it out an "ex" Amigan could favour Windows over Linux.


Then count another one (however, I call myself "Amigan" and not "ex").

Quote:
(PS: I'll try to have a look at AROS again, it's been literally ages since the first, and also last time I did it)


There are various distributions, I use Icaros Desktop.

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cdimauro 
Re: Annual Check-in
Posted on 25-Aug-2015 12:50:06
#118 ]
Super Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 1832
From: Germany

@Turrican3

Quote:

Turrican3 wrote:
@cdimauro
Quote:
except for the Windows vs Linux: I prefer the former.

This is really interesting, I would have never figured it out an "ex" Amigan could favour Windows over Linux.

I don't find Linux, and the Unix philosophy in general, close to the Amiga. On the contrary, Windows has several common points.

BTW, I'm still and amigan.
Quote:
To each his own I guess.

De gustibus.

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OlafS25 
Re: Annual Check-in
Posted on 25-Aug-2015 14:50:03
#119 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5078
From: Unknown

@TRIPOS

I think you changed the phrase on your profile on the other site?

you are wrong there... Aros and MorphOS when running both on X86 or x64 will be very different because there are different concepts and ideas behind. MorphOS will break with anything from the past and thus needs adapted new software for it. And there is the main problem behind the idea... there are only few 3rd party developer supporting MorphOS. Even worse... it will accellerate the development that the different OSs are more and more becoming different making it difficult to support more than one platform. Up to now Aros and MorphOS were still relative similar (from a programmer point of view) but this will change dramatically. So even if they manage to develope a modern MorphOS supporting up to date features who will support it except the OS developers? For me the wrong direction.

to slightly change a known phrase... its the software stupid

Last edited by OlafS25 on 25-Aug-2015 at 03:10 PM.

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Turrican3 
Re: Annual Check-in
Posted on 25-Aug-2015 17:20:27
#120 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 20-Jun-2003
Posts: 297
From: Italy

@pavlor
Quote:
Then count another one (however, I call myself "Amigan" and not "ex").

That's interesting as well!
And you are right, I guess one can never truly become an "ex" Amigan (neither I consider myself so, and to be perfectly honest I used quotation marks on purpose, to de-emphasize)

PS: thanks for suggesting that AROS distro

@cdimauro
Quote:
On the contrary, Windows has several common points.

Ok, now you've made me (genuinely) curious again.

Would you mind pointing to some of the things they have in common?

Last edited by Turrican3 on 25-Aug-2015 at 05:20 PM.

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