@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

You should not, read too match into that popularity index, it does not tell you if a program language is good or bad, it only tells you what is most used.

I think it can be useful to have a picture of the most used programming languages.
It can be read in different ways and it can help to better understand the IT market.

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SAM440EP-FLEX @ 733 Mhz, AmigaOS 4.1 Update 1

@OlafS25
Quote:

Free Pascal was developed independently to reimplement Delphi as opnensource.

Actually, Florian Klaempfl started it in the early 90s, because he was interested in writing chess programs, and ran out of memory while doing it in the 16bit Turbo Pascal... (Delphi didn't exist yet back then.) So he decided to write his own 32bit compiler. "How hard can it be? " By the time he reached the "self hosting" stage (so the compiler was able to compile itself, originally it was developed in Turbo Pascal) he lost interest in chess programs, and kept working on the compiler. Then it went opensource, and a number of people joined. As time passed, Delphi compatibility became more important and it was added later. Then the Lazarus project was born, to provide a free alternative to Delphi, based on FPC.

Quote:

It is a nice tool (do not use it right now myselve except now on Amiga).

What do you do with it on Amiga? If you have any plans or needs, just ask. Actually the whole Amiga support badly needs a lot of "real world" testing, so we're happy about any kind of feedback or to fix bugs.

_________________
MorphOS, classic Amiga, demoscene, and stuff
"When a bridge is not enough, build a Viaduct!"
"Strip the Amiga community of speculation and we can fit every forum on a 720k floppy" (by resle)

@Chain-Q

not enough (yet) but I really want to do more. One idea would be to get more includes (units) for different libraries in it. There are already a lot of but still some missing and adapt the includes to Aros 68k (where necessary).

My main interest is of course the 68k branch.

You said there are good converters already available?

Another idea is to create a kind of Amiga class library or at least special procedures and functions that make programming easier.

Last edited by OlafS25 on 09-Mar-2015 at 02:20 PM.
Last edited by OlafS25 on 09-Mar-2015 at 02:20 PM.

@OlafS25
Quote:

and adapt the includes to Aros 68k (where necessary).

Well, maybe the AROS headers have more chance there? It already includes the extra functionality from AROS... I think if you just adapt the AROS headers to ABIv1, you basically got AROS-68k support...? I would keep anything AROS related out of the classic Amiga branch, really... (Anyway, not mix up the two at least, on the source level.)

Quote:

You said there are good converters already available?

Well, yes and no. The headers themselves can be done using H2Pas usually, which is an included tool. But it still needs manual checking and fixing up at places. Then I had an updated version of fd2pragma, which converts the functions declarations from .fd files. But I also do a lot of that manually, because sometimes types need to be adapted by hand anyway (eg. C BOOL type to ByteBool/WordBool/LongBool and not the Pascal boolean)...

Quote:

Another idea is to create a kind of Amiga class library or at least special procedures and functions that make programming easier.

There's some of that already included, like for clipboard stuff, timer.device and more. It's among the Amiga-68k units, but we want to make them generic (all three platforms, where applicable).

Last edited by Chain-Q on 09-Mar-2015 at 02:30 PM.

_________________
MorphOS, classic Amiga, demoscene, and stuff
"When a bridge is not enough, build a Viaduct!"
"Strip the Amiga community of speculation and we can fit every forum on a 720k floppy" (by resle)

@Chain-Q

I will take a look at it, thanx

It would be nice to have a kind of cross-amiga language that hide the differences and make supporting different platforms easier but I fear it will become difficult because of all the differences.

"Class library" is propably much too much but I would want to make at least procedures and functions that hide the lowlevel stuff like you have on Basic (as example).

@OlafS25
Well, we're just getting into that region, where more-and-more FPC-defined generic APIs should be available on Amiga-like systems. So you don't have to care about threading differences for example. (That's not yet committed, but it's really on my short-term todo...) Or socket stuff. It could include simpler things like the Graph unit, for oldschool-style drawing, which already exist, just needs to be adapted for Amiga. Then there's FCL, LCL and fpGUI, where work already started by Alb42, and he's doing great progress. You could of course design something more Amiga-like and stick it to the three-four Amiga flavors we support, but what's the point, really? :)

There are not that many differences anyway (if you don't count OS4), most of the RTL code compiles unmodified for MorphOS, AROS and 68k.

But indeed even between these Amiga systems, you can't hide all the differences, take advantages of all advanced features and go for a super-optimized code at the same time. Sadly, especially classic Amiga is the weak link there, because the classic graphics subsystem work too differently to RTG systems... (Less colors, planar graphics, copper, sprites, etc.)

_________________
MorphOS, classic Amiga, demoscene, and stuff
"When a bridge is not enough, build a Viaduct!"
"Strip the Amiga community of speculation and we can fit every forum on a 720k floppy" (by resle)

@Chain-Q

Aros 68k should be more similar to AROS X86 and advanced than Amiga (classic) I guess? The only thing that is not working on Aros 68k is MESA/Gallium (wrong colors) and of course all the PCI/USB stuff.

On the other side it is not as good running on old hardware than Amiga OS but it might be a option for FPGA hardware. So (for me) FPGA hardware and emulation are the future of Aros 68k.

Last edited by OlafS25 on 09-Mar-2015 at 03:07 PM.

@OlafS25
Thanks to every one that posted.
I will keep working on this.
I know that there are plenty of options to choose, almost too many.

Looks like I did it again Olly.// I think that is what he said.

// Another funny one is " Hey Ralph, look at me I'm invisible."

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John 3:16

@Trekiej

Don't you mean: (* Another funny one is " Hey Ralph, look at me I'm invisible." *) ?

@Trekiej

Pascal was originally designed by Niklaus Wirth as a clear, logical language for teaching computer
programming (as opposed to BASIC).

As it attracted users and became used for "real world" applications, it was, naturally, extended in
many features by vendors and open source workers.

Wirth himself designed a second generation language for real application and system
development, named "Modula-2", with name spaces, information hiding (modules), module
initialization, memory handling (and also coroutines and thread priority control).
An ISO standard provides definitions for other features (module terminations,
exception handling, standard functions such as ROTATE() and SHIFT(), etc).

Modula-2 syntax and flavor was otherwise quite similar to Pascal.

Modula-2 has popular over the initial years of Amiga, and four or five good compilers were available
for Amiga programming. (Over the entire computing landscape, not so much. It seemed to be
a problem that it was not named "Pascal-2".)

At any rate, I've continued using, and updating a Modula-2 compiler fashioned for PPC Amiga.
(And will be releasing updates once the OS4FE SDK is released, iff I get even the slightest interest :) .)

Check it out. I'll be glad to help.

Tom
tmbfreecatrunboxcom

AgletM2 on OS4Depot

Aglet M2 Web Page
Docs

@Massi

Well, yes if the idea is to use the knowledge to get a job, you need pick language that is in use; that is true.

While "C" is on top of the index, not many companies are looking for C developers (at least not in Norway). Java and C# however extremely popular in job market, and then there is C++.

I feel the list is a bit silly in few ways.
Because in the list they are compering programming languages that are used for web development vs SQL languages vs programming languages used for making programs.

I do not feel they belong on the same list, because they are, used for different things, and sometimes you need to know at least two or three of the languages to make good web page for example.

And if you making some kind of back office application, you need to know a mix VB + SQL, or C# + SQL, so it's not like by knowing one language, you know all you need to know.

While in Web application you need know at least three (if you are not counting CSS and HTML), JavaScript (for the web browser), and the Server language like (PHP, Python, Ruby, ASP.) and a Query Language like (T-SQL, MySQL, Postgress, DB2, Oracle)

It's also a bit funny how they spited up Virtual Basic .Net and Virtual Basic, no one talks about different versions of PHP, if summed up the VB ratings will be almost as popular as C#

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 09-Mar-2015 at 04:17 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 09-Mar-2015 at 04:16 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 09-Mar-2015 at 04:12 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 09-Mar-2015 at 04:11 PM.

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http://lifeofliveforit.blogspot.no/
Facebook::LiveForIt Software for AmigaOS

@NutsAboutAmiga

Allright.

Language is a "tool" and there are different tools for different domains.
In real time / embedded systems (my main domain), it is mainly C and Assembly.

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SAM440EP-FLEX @ 733 Mhz, AmigaOS 4.1 Update 1

@tbreeden

If I recall well, Modula-2 evolved then to Modula-3 and later to Oberon, Oberon-2, Oberon-3 ...

So yes Pascal has surely inspired many languages.

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SAM440EP-FLEX @ 733 Mhz, AmigaOS 4.1 Update 1

@ Megol
scratches head

@ tbreeden
That is cool to know. I will look into Modula.

_________________
John 3:16

@Trekiej

Silly question here, but if you were interested in IF, wouldnt a choice such as the z interpreter or its decendants be a wiser choice? Iirc theres an os4 port of at least one zi and at least one of its modern decendants.

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Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes hurtling down the highway.

I serve King Jesus.
What/who do you serve?

@Barana
I have been thinking of using IF software or maybe Hollywood.
I did down load some software the other day.
Sorry, I have to look at what I got.
I did see a book for C64 on how to write adventure games.
I am going to go back to writing.

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John 3:16