@Vistaus

Quote:

Vistaus wrote: @QuikSanz Yeah, I agree with you. "who cares". But that doesn't mean I have to stop being interested in other's POV :)

btw, Have an A2000HD with goodies, a 4000T maxed and an A1XE G4 1Ghz.

I like Amiga OS a lot since 92.

Chris

@redfox

+1

Well put indeed!
Tygre

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Tygre
Scientific Progress Goes Boing!

@Fransexy

if Commodore would have had a chance to survive the "Apple route" would have been the only sensible way to go even if some of the die-hards would have not been happy about it.

Besides you use this as evidence that AmigaONE, and so on are Amigas but I could then also say a PC with AROS is Amiga because it looks like one, behaves like one, the software runs on it. The same of course would be the case for a PPC Mac with MorphOS or booting with AMINUX.

@danwood

Quote:

Well Mac... ...changed bit-by-bit into the machines they are today...

I have been thinking this same thing too that with Amiga the problem is that there was nothing happening for long time and then there came a too big leap forward, instead of things happening bit by bit.

I actually think if Escom had been able to get their PPC machines out and stayed say, at least 2 years even after that before going bankrupt, that much more people would feel that PPC Amigas are Amigas.

For when i for example think it myself personally. Classic Amigas with PPC Turbo Cards, they feel completely Amiga, no difference there in my mind between Bare Classic or Classic + Turbo. Yet Amigas with PPC only (ie. X1000), while I do still think they are Amigas, they already dont feel as strongly like Amiga as classic Amiga feel.

@OlafS25

Quote:

if Commodore would have had a chance to survive the "Apple route" would have been the only sensible way to go even if some of the die-hards would have not been happy about it. Besides you use this as evidence that AmigaONE, and so on are Amigas but I could then also say a PC with AROS is Amiga because it looks like one, behaves like one, the software runs on it. The same of course would be the case for a PPC Mac with MorphOS or booting with AMINUX.

By that token you could also say a Hackintosh (generic PC running modded OS X) is a Mac, it can boot OS X and run Apple software, but we all know it's not a real Mac. A Mac computer is a unique platform consisting of hardware and dedicated OS/software for a machine manufactured and sold by Apple, same as the Amiga was by Commodore.

The Sams/UAE PCs/PPC Macs with MorphOS are more akin to Hackintoshes really, can run the same software, but they're not the "real deal".

@Bugala

Quote:

I have been thinking this same thing too that with Amiga the problem is that there was nothing happening for long time and then there came a too big leap forward, instead of things happening bit by bit.

That's definitely part of it, the Mac evolved steadily into the platform it is today, the "Amiga" went from the A1200 to the AmigaONE XE which had nothing whatsoever in common and was an entirely different architecture and platform.

Last edited by danwood on 18-Jun-2014 at 12:31 PM.

@paolone

With regards to the first paragraph of your post: you hit it right on the money, because I'm the exception. I was born in 92 and am using AmigaOS 4.1 since last year.

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Proud user of AmigaOS 4.1 on an AmigaONE 500. This is the first Amiga I've ever had so I don't know all the ins and outs of AmigaOS yet, so I'm sorry if I'm asking noob questions and stuff.

@Fransexy

1 DIfferent situation.
2 While I get your point, that's beside mine. I'm an Amiga user since last year, I'm not a Mac user so I care more about what we call AmigaNG than what we call a modern Mac.

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Proud user of AmigaOS 4.1 on an AmigaONE 500. This is the first Amiga I've ever had so I don't know all the ins and outs of AmigaOS yet, so I'm sorry if I'm asking noob questions and stuff.

@Vistaus

Going from an expanded A4k with PCI-slots, cards etc a NG Amiga is pretty much the same experience but with a much improved OS. That's how I see it at least.

a thing from my mind:
With my 4k early 2000 I wanted more CPU power and especially HDD speed.
SAM440ep does that and has the original OS in it's guts.
(I just want more and more...?)

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- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

@danwood

Quote:

No they're not Amigas, they're AmigaONEs,

"Amiga ONE" Is just a Rebadged TERON board so hardly a "real amiga"

@agami

Quote:

I've said it before and I'll say it again; An Amiga is more than a brand

Yup its a Religion! :)

@realize

Amen brother!

@the rest o' y'all

The question posed by @Vistaus was very simple. Why do y'all take it so personally?
It's not about whether it's enjoyable to use any and all of the AmigaNG platforms, it's not about OS4 vs. Morphos vs. AROS, and it's not about Classic vs. NG.

Yes, people use whatever they want and hopefully they enjoy that experience (I'd hate to think you're using something despite your enjoyment, just to prove some sort of point).

And Amiga-like is Amiga-enough for most people. Especially if you need to describe your NG platform to someone outside "the club".

But inside our little club we need to "call a spade a spade". And it won't mean that if you use a shovel you are somehow wrong.

I will leave you all with this last bit of key differentiation which is not some fuzzy-wuzzy rainbows & unicorns aspect:

The original Commodore Amiga (classic) was (for a time) a commercially viable mainstream personal computer platform used in homes and in businesses in many industries, with a thriving user base and third-party hardware and software developers. With software that was on par with the rest of the PC industry and in some cases leading in functionality and UI/UX. A platform that started the mouse-based gaming era, and the desktop multimedia era.

Anything you may choose to include under the category of AmigaNG today, is a hobby computing platform enjoyed by a small fringe group of users made up of predominantly nostalgic classic Amiga users. Sure it's nice to be able to fire up AmigaOS 4 on a partially functional x1000, and run a partially functional port of Firefox, and also run some of those good old classic pieces of software on the integrated emulation layer. But an Amiga it ain't. Let's not delude ourselves.

Last edited by agami on 19-Jun-2014 at 03:36 AM.
Last edited by agami on 19-Jun-2014 at 03:35 AM.

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All the way, with 68k

@Vistaus
Quote:

what exactly makes AmigaNG's less Amiga? Is it because of the lack of Commodore or is it something else?

Each user has his/her own idea of what is what, but ultimately it comes down to two distinct perspectives: Facts and opinions.

The facts are pretty clear, the "Amiga" is everything made by Commodore from the A1000 to the A4000. Everything else is some kind of clone or upgrade but it's not the old Amiga that millions of people remeber.

Opinions are subjective, IMHO the CD32 isn't an Amiga even though it has the custom chipset.
My XE and X1000 have nothing in common with the Classic hardware, but once used with OS4.x, to me they are Amigas and when someone asks me if I use a PC or Mac, the most accurate answer I can give them is "neither, I use an Amiga" (and if they look at me like I'm nuts, I explain that it's a new Amiga with modern features, not the old one they remember).

Likewise I'd expect AROS/MOS/Amithlon/UAE users to think of their system the same way. If it looks like an Amiga and works like an Amiga, it's an Amiga.

Among ourselves we can make a distinction between various hardware and software incarnations but for the general public it's all just "Amiga".

Regardless of how it's done, the end result is the same, it's running Amiga software and IMHO that's what really matters.

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AlexC's free OS4 software collection

AmigaOne XE/X1000/X5000/UAE-PPC OS4 laptop/X-10 Home Automation

@AlexC

Thank you very much! That's, IMHO, a fantastic answer to my question and thanks to esp. you but also some others in this thread I now know what to call my AONE500 (and other NG's) :)

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Proud user of AmigaOS 4.1 on an AmigaONE 500. This is the first Amiga I've ever had so I don't know all the ins and outs of AmigaOS yet, so I'm sorry if I'm asking noob questions and stuff.

@realize

Quote:

"Amiga ONE" Is just a Rebadged TERON board so hardly a "real amiga"

The AmigaONE X1000 and AmigaONE X500 (Sam 460) are not Terons.

Well, the facts are pretty clear as has been pointed out more than once, however many people will call things a particular name based on their impression of what it does or common usage. For example, I have a vacuum cleaner here that I call a Hoover, even though it has Dyson written on the side. Everyone I've ever had a vacuum-cleaner-related conversation with in Ireland and the UK also refers to their cleaners as "Hoovers" (anyone remember their parents shouting "Have you hoovered your room?!"), but not many actually own a Hoover-branded cleaner.

In that case it only becomes important to know the exact brand when you're buying one, or getting accessories for your particular vacuum cleaner. Other than that it doesn't really matter.

I think similar can be applied to the Amiga scene. When it's not important, call them all Amiga if you like and if it's easier than being more specific, even though the only ones that are actual Amigas are the ones with "Amiga" on the case. It's only when you're buying one or trying to get software or hardware to work with it that it becomes important to differentiate which one you're dealing with.

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RobTheNerd.com | InstallerGen | SMBMounter | Atoms-X

@Daedalus


I know you just hit the nail right on the head, but.......

When dealing with certain people I will always refer to my post C=
computers that run Amiga OS as AMIGA. Just because it's so much fun
and they always come back for more.

Remember when computingt was fun?

Buy yourself a new Amiga and let the good times roll.

Last edited by Signal on 19-Jun-2014 at 07:18 PM.

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Tinkering with computers.

@OlafS25

I agree that especially in the late 1980s Amiga hardware was what make the Amiga stand out compared to PC, Apple & Atari computers. But without an operating system that took full advantage of that hardware, the hardware advantages would not have mattered. I started using Amiga OS with 2.1 on an A3000. The flexibility, usability & design of Amiga OS was vastly superior to Windows 3.1 & MS-Dos or any other common operating system of that time. The OS was definately an intregal part of the Amiga experiance, and in the form of OS 4.1 is a real continuation of that experiance for me.

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- BCP
AmigaOne X1000 & Amiga 4000

Amiga Response Crew Users Group
Indianapolis, IN USA

Back in 2000, Amiga was my main computer. I refused to buy a PC for a long time. By 2000, I was already using my Amiga mostly as a tool to get the job done (irc, icq, mail, browsing, mp3, movies, games, photo editing, video capture, etc) and not as a toy to have some fun like I was previously doing with my Amigas. I mean it had already became a routine.

As a result, I started using AmigaOS extensively and over time started to see the shortcomings of both the hardware and software because the PC's kept improving.

At this point, if a new Amiga using an improved AmigaOS was released that was totally incompatible with the old architecture, but supported standards of the time, (msn support, compatibility with printers, standard 3d acceleration, browser that had the same capabilities as Internet Explorer, etc...) I would have started using it and would still call it an Amiga. And think people would not have started to leave the Amiga scene. I was just a user and because I needed to catch up with the standards, I started using a Celeron PC which I found in the trash (its cdrom was not working)

There were things I liked (have control over OS and hardware, always know what the problem is when something goes wrong, os is flexible, logical, etc)

and things I didn't like (* it's tedious to browse to the file you want to open because AmigaOS still uses the old way; you have to open a new window every time you open a directory. You have to use something like Dopus because of this "limitation of AmigaOS". This is one of the things among some others that keeps AmigaOS back but some people still see even AmigaOS4.1 as a retro entertainment and would not want it to be changed.)

The way we use computers have changed and our needs have changed.

Amiga is not a philosophy. People who think it is are the ones that brought it down and caused different camps to appear which resulted in its true death. (now it's undead but I don't see it as a problem :P ) Amiga is not something we can relate with ourselves. It's simply a brand name and a computer we liked. If AmigaOS is improved to the point that the old one's shortcomings are fixed and it's made more like today's modern operating systems which have become better in almost every aspect than AmigaOS, I don't see a reason to not call AmigaNGs as true Amigas... if the hardware can allow us to do everything an enthusiastic PC user does. Then I'm sure Amiga users will grow in number once again and Amigans will start to create awesome things once again.

So as Amiga fans, it's totally up to us to whether keep it as a nostalgic pass time or to try and bring it to the present.