Of course it is. Things may have panned out differently than some may have liked with NG options being pretty much generic pcs rather than interesting unique hardware and a heavy/interesting merger of os and hardware, but nonetheless it is what it is. Things change and evolve, at timesin ways that not everyone agrees with.

The amiga most of us grew up with is pretty much over and done with (besides enthusiasts(of which Im one)) and has been succeeded, and have been replaced with something different, but that "something different" (aros/mos/os4.x) is what a modern amiga is.
The only real contention is whether a person enjoys it as much, but that's a personal choice/opinion.

@Signal

Quote:

Signal wrote: When dealing with certain people I will always refer to my post C= computers that run Amiga OS as AMIGA. Just because it's so much fun and they always come back for more.

I think that this is one of the most honest answers I have read in this thread (not that many/most others aren't honest as well).

What I find amusing sometimes, but usually very tiring the rest of the time, is the endless debate about what can, or cannot be called, or considered a "REAL" Amiga, and the number of people who will never tire of participating in this debate. Often at a high level of emotional commitment to their personal stance on this topic.

Where is that "Dead Horse" that is being beaten, smiley icon when you need it?

Last edited by amigadave on 20-Jun-2014 at 06:56 AM.

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@Ancalimon

Quote:

Ancalimon wrote: Amiga is not a philosophy. People who think it is are the ones that brought it down and caused different camps to appear which resulted in its true death.

Please stop this true nonsense immediately. Camps are the consequence of the death of Amiga platform (being it the Commodore product line and Commodore itself), not the cause of it.

MorphOS has born due to Amiga Inc (or how it was called at the time) inettitude with dealing with other companies. It might have been the official Amiga OS today with the AmigaOS name many are so fond of, if thing had gone the right way.

AROS has born when Commodore died, since no one seemed trustworthy enough when talking about Amiga OS future.

Both operating systems had been reactions to Amiga corporates behaviors, they would never happen if things had gone differently. AROS, MorphOS and AmigaOS4 are all opportunities for Amiga fellows, but please comprehend once forever that the "real" Amiga platform has *dead* long ago: we are just prosecuting it into very similar but still different ways. We love to call our (AROS, MOS, AmigaOS 4) attitude being "Amiga", but we're fouling ourselves. The only ones who still use Amigas among us, are the ones who are still running Commodore computers today. That's why our stupid war between camps is so pathetic.

@paolone

Quote:

but we're fouling ourselves.

eww, I hope you meant fooling

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@Ancalimon

Quote:

and things I didn't like (* it's tedious to browse to the file you want to open because AmigaOS still uses the old way; you have to open a new window every time you open a directory. You have to use something like Dopus because of this "limitation of AmigaOS". This is one of the things among some others that keeps AmigaOS back but some people still see even AmigaOS4.1 as a retro entertainment and would not want it to be changed.)

That's kind of the thing about AmigaOS, you are free to chose what Desktop you like, if its Scalos, Workbench, Dopus5 thats your choice, in fact you don't even need a desktop you can start programs direct from startup-sequence / user-startup or make your own program starter.

Dopus5 can do all you are asking for and it replaces workbench fully.

I like old ways of doing things, I like workbench, the thing I don't like if most name one, is how multi monitor support works in AmigaOS, where you need to switch between screens by pressing the upper corner, instead of just dragging the mouse from monitor to monitor, I like to have workbench/desktop that can cover two monitors. It be easier to arrange workbench windows that way.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 20-Jun-2014 at 12:40 PM.

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@amigadave

Quote:

Where is that "Dead Horse" that is being beaten, smiley icon when you need it?

Now wait for someone to argue that this one is too "retro" or not a "real" beating-a-dead-horse animgif. (evil grin)

#6

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@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

That's kind of the thing about AmigaOS, you are free to chose what Desktop you like, if its Scalos, Workbench, Dopus5 thats your choice, in fact you don't even need a desktop you can start programs direct from startup-sequence / user-startup or make your own program starter. Dopus5 can do all you are asking for and it replaces workbench fully. I like old ways of doing things, I like workbench, the thing I don't like if most name one, is how multi monitor support works in AmigaOS, where you need to switch between screens by pressing the upper corner, instead of just dragging the mouse from monitor to monitor, I like to have workbench/desktop that can cover two monitors. It be easier to arrange workbench windows that way.

That's the thing I'm talking about. Computing has changed. In the past we used the operating systems mostly in order to launch programs. Today we do most of the things on top of the operating systems. I mean we don't usually first open a "text program" and from there open the text file we are looking for. We browse to the text file, right click on it and choose which program we want to open it with.

Actually "the intuitive Amiga way" should have been an improved version of something like what Dopus Magellan gives us. I really don't want to launch DOPUS or Magellan in order to browse and open my files. I want AmigaOS to be self-sufficient. It should have been the standard and give people the "option" to do it the old way if there are people that like to spend a minute trying to find the file they are looking for ;)

Last edited by Ancalimon on 20-Jun-2014 at 04:46 PM.

@paolone

Quote:

we're fouling ourselves

http://youtu.be/K6KyM193K_o?t=9s

@Ancalimon

Quote:

I mean we don't usually first open a "text program" and from there open the text file we are looking for. We browse to the text file, right click on it and choose which program we want to open it with.

Well I can agree with that, I have complained about Def Icons for many years.

Quote:

Actually "the intuitive Amiga way" should have been an improved version of something like what Dopus Magellan gives us.

That's where I don't agree with you, Dopus Magellan does so many things, and has so many buttons, actually Dopus Magellan scares me, its so easy to drag some files around and Dopus Magellan will start decompressing and moving files with my actually wanted to do that.

And besides all the buttons are clutter to my eyes.

Quote:

I really don't want to launch DOPUS or Magellan in order to browse and open my files.

You can run it in workbench replacement mode, so you don't need to launch it, it pop when the OS has booted, you don't even need a workbench.

So you can do that, you don't need to take away my workbench from me to do that.

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Quote:

number6 wrote: Now wait for someone to argue that this one is too "retro" or not a "real" beating-a-dead-horse animgif. (evil grin)

But it's not real, because the horse isn't real, the man isn't real and the beating isn't real

@Vistaus

Software always evolves. When the Amiga 1000 came out the software was simple. There was a word processor called Scribble. There were simple painting programs. Software always evolved toward greater complexity. After a while we had Deluxepaint and Prowrite. Even though the hardware stayed the same, the software improved and pushed the hardware to the limit. When you've pushed the hardware as far as it will go, the hardware has to evolve. Software drives hardware. Software created the need for AmigaNG. Software is the important thing. Not hardware.

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@broadblues

Quote:

broadblues wrote: @paolone Quote: but we're fouling ourselves. eww, I hope you meant fooling

Yep. However I checked for to foul and to fool, and both can mean "ingannare" which is the italian verb I had in mind.

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

Quote: Actually "the intuitive Amiga way" should have been an improved version of something like what Dopus Magellan gives us. That's where I don't agree with you, Dopus Magellan does so many things, and has so many buttons, actually Dopus Magellan scares me, its so easy to drag some files around and Dopus Magellan will start decompressing and moving files with my actually wanted to do that.

Hi. I'm working on Dopus 5 integration in Icaros Desktop and I've met the same issues, for instance I don't like Dopus decompressing zip files when dragging their icons to another window, I just want them moved/copied. But this is easily customizable as well. Just tell Dopus 5 not to do so, and it won't (nor it won't on Icaros, that's sure :D). Buttons are not so bad, either, you should just find your way of placing and using them.

@paolone

Quote:

Yep. However I checked for to foul and to fool, and both can mean "ingannare" which is the italian verb I had in mind.

Just for imformations sake and to p revent emabarassment in polite conversation

I donlt think so, to fool oneself, as a synonim for 'to deceive oneself', woud certain translate to that verb, but not foul, 'to foul' can mean to make amess, to break the rules (sport), to entangle (foul the propeller of a boat with weeds) but not to deceive.

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@Vistaus

I am coming here late into the game but wanted to add my thoughts also.

I have an Amiga A1200, an A4000, an AmigaOne-XE and an AmigaOne X1000. I don't consider the latter two to be real Amigas. After all, they are called AmigaOne machines, not Amiga. I'd also dispute calling my X1000 an AmigaOne as my AmigaOne-XE OS4 CD won't work on it and it has different firmware. But that's a different story.

An Amiga, or real Amiga if you like, was a computer produced by Commodore based directly on the work of Jay Miner to bring new sounds and colour into the computing world. It ran from 1985 to 1994 and perhaps 1995.

The AmigaOne was produced ten years later and the hardware was chosen to be the next Amiga or AmigaNG. So it wasn't even designed to be a next gen Amiga. There's a ten year gap which unfortuately left the hardware too late. And it wasn't based on any previous work of any Amiga hardware engineers. Infact it didn't even have all the cool features we saw in Amiga magazines for a possible next gen Amiga, machines that might have had a PowerPC but a custom chipset doing cool video effects in realtime.

What makes my AmigaOne-XE an AmigaOne is a sticker on the motheboard. Infact, AFAIK, it isn't even printed in ink on the mobo. And do you know what makes my AmigaOne to be Amiga at all? The harddisk. If I pull the HD out there is nothing Amiga about my AmigaOne. Except perhaps a UBoot routine in the boot ROM that can boot off an RDB. But without the HD there is no Kickstart, no Workbench and no Amiga for me.

This question really needs to be be answered when you need to explain what computer you ae using. If someone doesn't know Amiga calling it the "Amiga" term may be easy but in my mind is not exactly correct. If someone knows then it can get hard explaining it's not exactly an Amiga and give the history lesson.

But let me look at this in another way. I think there is an easy way to explain what the NG machines are. Put simply, they are AmigaOS machines. They run AmigaOS. That's what they do. The Amiga hardware has been left behind, which really was a big part of the machine, and the focus now is on the OS. So now we are left with AmigaOS machines.

So, the next time someone asks you what computer you use, you can answer, "I use an AmigaOS!"

@Hypex

That's an interesting way to look at it! Thanks :)

Btw, side question (to everyone reading this): are there really no original Amiga devs/engineers left behind the scenes (at Hyperion, A-Eon, etc.)? Everyone just left for another job after Commodore found Davy Jones' locker? If so, maybe to make AmigaOne more Amiga again, we need some of these old devs/engineers to come back.

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@Vistaus

Quote:

we need some of these old devs/engineers to come back.

Who old do you think they be today? If they where around 20 - 40 years old back in 1990?
45 - 65 years old, I don't think they be motivated.

No what we need is to shift gears, we need motivated developers.

Quote:

maybe to make AmigaOne more Amiga again

Nothing about Amiga as it was can be of any use today, modern chips have every thing, most of problems we have are software issues, not hardware issues.

Maybe there one two features that are not too outdated and crap that can be added just to make the hardware more compatible.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 01-Jul-2014 at 10:05 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 01-Jul-2014 at 09:03 PM.

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@Hypex

Quote:

Inact it didn't even have all the cool features we saw in Amiga magazines for a possible next gen Amiga,

what features are we taking about here?

Quote:

machines that might have had a PowerPC but a custom chipset doing cool video effects in realtime.

The hardware can do that, ReadionHD has hardware acceleration for video decoding.
Its not hardware problem, its a software problem.

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@NutsAboutAmiga

45-65 is perfectly acceptable. How old do you think some devs/engineers at MS and Apple are?

I'm not saying we shouldn't have young, motivated devs. I'm just saying that those former Amiga devs/engineers could help out. HELP OUT. That's all I'm after.

Sure, modern chips have everything. I'm not saying all of that should be replaced. But they were revolutionair back then and getting some help from former devs/engineers might lead to inspiration and some new ideas. But whether or not that happens, I still love my AONE500 just as much, that's not the problem.

Last edited by Vistaus on 02-Jul-2014 at 11:00 AM.

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@Vistaus

the basic problem there is that the experienced people are indeed older and the young ones do not know AmigaOS (any kind) and AmigaOS is very different indeed. So we need better tools for developers and more options for crossplatform development (including commercial relevant platforms).