@Cego

Very long post - but you completely missed my point, so please read Kronos' and my post again.

Except you're only looking for a reason to bash around against some OS (you never really used) because you're (a rather newbie) user of another OS - then feel free to go on.

_________________
X1000|II/G4|440ep|2000/060|2000/040|1000

@geit

Guido, this is not the first time I complained about Ambient's icon information requester and it won't be the last time! Maybe I'll collect a feature wish list for such a central UI component. And as I already stated: thanks to Stefan the dock system is getting better**.

*: Ambient is so advanced in some regards that it really hurts me that this part is still so...3.1.

**: In the end MorphOS has a similar problem like AmigaOS; more hardware (like G5) but other more user*** centric stuff....takes ages.

***: me!

_________________
X1000|II/G4|440ep|2000/060|2000/040|1000

Will Hyperion now make QT the future default for OS4?

I remember in earlier interviews they naming QT as a possible replacement for ReAction.

_________________

@cha05e90

Quote:

*: Ambient is so advanced in some regards that it really hurts me that this part is still so...3.1.

Is it?



Image linked from http://www.ghira.mistral.co.uk/amiga/newbie.html





Image linked from http://www.titan.co.nz/amigaak/AA020844e9A.htm

I dont see difference. RAWBInfo is using different layout but that is it. I dont know what X and Y are there for. On Ambient you cant specify priority or execute without WB startup message but I have never seen anyone even asking for those.

_________________
Amiga Developer
Amiga 500, Efika, Mac Mini and PowerBook

@itix

I think X and Y are snapshotted Icon positions relative to window or screen TopLeft Edges.

Last edited by Ami603 on 27-Aug-2013 at 11:04 AM.

_________________
Cuida tus piedras gordas.

A1200/030 32Mb
A4000D
A1-X1000.

@cha05e90

Erm, it's quite insane to pretend Workbench is more advanced than Ambient...

Let's see :

Workbench:
- monothreaded design (no, asyncwb is clearly not enough)
- very poor file management
- unusable listview (slow and very limited)
- very unoptimized (i.e slow and very memory hungry) when dealing with lots of files (> 1k files, for instance).
- navigation limited to spatial mode (which one can like, but it shouldn't be limited to that).
- the obvious lacks workbench had in 3.1 days were never really addressed properly: deficons, asyncwb, autoupdatewb, contextual menus, thumbnailing, all these utilities feel like hacks to add the said functionalities, but they're clearly not a proper solution. Face it, workbench has to be rewritten from scratch to be modern.

Ambient:
- multithreaded design
- mimetype system with inheritance concept. It allows to define for each mimetype (e.g text/html) or family (e.g video/* or audio/*) various actions (be it by doubleclick, contextmenu entry or drag'n'drop events), default icons and so on. In practice, it's just as powerful as magellan's mimetype system, with the addition of the inheritance concept.
-advanced view system: configurable default modes and size/position, spatial or browser navigation modes with user-defined toolbar, statusbar. Views can be iconified, ...
-fast icon mode (dozens of times faster than workbench when dealing with lots of files) and feature-rich (auto-sorting, zoom, ...)
-fast and very configurable list view mode, with many features such as inline edition, configurable columns, thumbnail/icon, directory size, version, md5, .. display
- volume list window (be it in icon or list mode). Once you're used to it, you can't live without it, because it allows a very quick access to any volume instantly with the need of having all the volumes icons messing up your desktop
- proper keyboard navigation with many useful features like focusing to a file by typing its name, copy/paste, back/forward/parent and so on...
- powerful file management (including pattern selection, pattern renaming and so on)
- integrated file search function, per filename (with pattern support), contents or type.
- archive (anything xadmaster handles) and disk image (e.g ISO, ADF, ...) navigation system allowing to browse seamlessly into archives/disk images
- pictures and videos (anything libavcodec supports) thumbnailing support (video thumbnails are animated)
- integrated audio playback support for most common formats with screenbar support
- integrated text view with search and so on...
- bookmark/favorite support, allowing to reach quickly directories
- integrated panel system with plugin support. You may not like their apparent simplicity, but they might still do more than you think. Feel free to ask what you'd need there :)
- support for all amiga icon formats (including dualpng, os4 glowicons and so on).
- configurable menus (just like toolsdaemon). Use Crabum GUI to configure them (it can be done through REXX as well)
- very configurable shortcut system
- rich REXX port.
- MUI-based, which makes it easy to extend on a developer point of view, and configure from an end user point of view.
- ... and many features here and there hard to categorize, like middle mouse button scrolling, drag'n'drop support wherever it's possible.

Last edited by Fab on 27-Aug-2013 at 11:59 AM.
Last edited by Fab on 27-Aug-2013 at 11:57 AM.
Last edited by Fab on 27-Aug-2013 at 11:56 AM.
Last edited by Fab on 27-Aug-2013 at 11:33 AM.
Last edited by Fab on 27-Aug-2013 at 11:33 AM.
Last edited by Fab on 27-Aug-2013 at 11:30 AM.

@CodeSmith

Quote:

I would even go so far as to suggest that someone set up a bounty to port OS4 Qt to MOS and AROS - that would be a great way to make software easy to port across OSs.

+1

I remember some discussions about QT over AROS-EXEC.org, and again people split in 'favourable' and 'contrary', with endless and pointless - IMHO - discussions about the 'alienation' of the OS. Yes, QT applications don't behave like native ones (and they even have that ugly menu bar in the main window), and maybe coding their GUI won't fit in the comfort zone of MUI/Reaction/Zune addicted coders, but porting frameworks is not about alienating or polluting a OS: it's just opening new horizons and make TOOLS available for both coders and users. Once you have it, if you don't like it, just ignore it.

If the motivation for fear is that coders just stop using the old tools and move to the new ones, well, that's just a matter of evolution. If most people stops using MUI or Zune or ReAction and move to QT, it simply means that QT offer better realiability than the others: ubi maior, minor cessat. Even if it may happen in a quite long future, there is still the time to 'amigaize' QT behavior, so what's the problem so far?

@paolone

+1

there is a standardized GUI system covering all platforms missing. MUI comes nearest (available everywhere) but with different implementations. ReAction is AmigaOS only. Then there are a number of exotic choices but none available for all platforms. It must be opensource and be the same on all platforms (like the Magellan project) and not held hostage by one platform or with different implementations for every platform. If it is something from Amiga community like NTUI (http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=37895&forum=15#712248) or from outside like QT is not so important to me.

@paolone

Quote:

Yes, QT applications don't behave like native ones (and they even have that ugly menu bar in the main window)

If you prefer you can set native Amiga menu aswell, same for the fonts, asl requesters and so on

http://s22.postimg.org/nud5y95zl/image.png

_________________
BACK FOR THE FUTURE

http://www.betatesting.it/backforthefuture

Sam440ep Flex 800 Mhz 1 GB Ram + AmigaOS 4.1 Update 6
AmigaOne XE G3 800 Mhz - 640 MB Ram - Radeon 9200 SE + AmigaOS 4.1 Update 6

@samo79

looks good... I would support a port

I do not know what MorphOS users and developers think about it but I would spend money for a bounty to port it. And others from AROS camp might be interested too

Last edited by OlafS25 on 27-Aug-2013 at 12:20 PM.
Last edited by OlafS25 on 27-Aug-2013 at 12:20 PM.

@OlafS25

Sure, unite efforts would be something for the common good, especially now that the work on OS4 version is already so advanced

Unfortunately it's always so difficult to have a serious and professional attitude when we talk about Amiga, in general prevails the usual fanboysm attitude instead ..

Last edited by samo79 on 27-Aug-2013 at 12:33 PM.

_________________
BACK FOR THE FUTURE

http://www.betatesting.it/backforthefuture

Sam440ep Flex 800 Mhz 1 GB Ram + AmigaOS 4.1 Update 6
AmigaOne XE G3 800 Mhz - 640 MB Ram - Radeon 9200 SE + AmigaOS 4.1 Update 6

@samo79

Is the OS4 port of QT open or closed? The problem is when it is closed (like in other projects) the developer who wants to port it has to start from scratch. And that makes any ports unlikely.

@samo79

Do "fanbois" actually have much say in the matter, beyond creating a sour vibe on forums?

A common development resource that will to an increasing degree streamline development across
platforms.

Take M.A.C.E. and other games. They are available on several platforms, giving developers access
to a larger pools of customers. It makes it viable for them to keep developing.
As Ive said on other threads regarding games; I would probarly never know of, nor buy some of the
games if it hadnt been for the fact its being advertised here.

I might not own NG Amiga (whatever flavor AOS4, morph or aros), but im MUCH more inclined to
buy a game if its reasonably entertaining with developers that support the Amiga brand.

So by the sounds of it by reading this thread (from my non-coder perspective), QT seems like a good way forward.

@itix, Fab, Geit et al.

You can do even more and even longer posts, it won't help.

1. Fab: I didn't say that Ambient isn't superior in a lot of respects vs. Workbench. Nevertheless Ambient has still room to get even more advanced.

2. itix: No, it's worse, more 2.1 than 3.1. Screenshot's of icon information requesters sadly don't show the amount of functions that can be found in the menus/keyboard shortcuts and for example don't show the retro-3.1 kind of editing tooltypes (hitting "Add" for an line entry, how 1.3 is that?). You devs should have shown more love for that requester and it's functiononality...really.

3 As all of you don't seem to have access to even a basic AmigaOS 3.9 system, we shouldn't discuss those very narrow feature set of OS UI component here and in theory (incl. wild screenshots from everywhere). I'll follow geit's advice and may put together a "feature wish list".

@itix: You know that your first screenshot isn't a 3.1 requester?

Last edited by cha05e90 on 27-Aug-2013 at 12:47 PM.

_________________
X1000|II/G4|440ep|2000/060|2000/040|1000

Sure it was 100% open since beginning, you can found the sources here:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/qtamigaosnative/

_________________
BACK FOR THE FUTURE

http://www.betatesting.it/backforthefuture

Sam440ep Flex 800 Mhz 1 GB Ram + AmigaOS 4.1 Update 6
AmigaOne XE G3 800 Mhz - 640 MB Ram - Radeon 9200 SE + AmigaOS 4.1 Update 6

@paolone

Quote:

Even if it may happen in a quite long future, there is still the time to 'amigaize' QT behavior, so what's the problem so far?

Which has already begun to a certain extent (native menus, ASL requester, Tray2AppDock etc.).

By the way: Those people who always complain about the "alien menus in the window": It's a MUI feature! And like MUI you can switch this off in Qt. While default MUI is no menus in windows, the default in Qt is menus in windows. What's the problem?

_________________
X1000|II/G4|440ep|2000/060|2000/040|1000

@cha05e90

Just FYI, in Ambient, you can drag'n'drop tooltypes from other information windows, you can also doubleclick an entry to disable/enable a tooltype. This tooltype behaviour certainly is ahead of 1.3/3.1. And considering the poor drag'n'drop ability in Reaction, i'm not even sure it's available in 3.9/4.0, but i'll check later.

As for the "add" button to add a tooltype, that's a matter of taste, really... Free editing can be confusing.

@Overflow

Quote:

Do "fanbois" actually have much say in the matter, beyond creating a sour vibe on forums?

Not only on this thread, this portal and not only this portal are full of, fanatism, envy, zero desire to collaborate or joint common team projects are generally the worse disease of the entire Amiga world .. not a surprise if the current Amiga community are so split and litigious ...

Last edited by samo79 on 27-Aug-2013 at 12:51 PM.

_________________
BACK FOR THE FUTURE

http://www.betatesting.it/backforthefuture

Sam440ep Flex 800 Mhz 1 GB Ram + AmigaOS 4.1 Update 6
AmigaOne XE G3 800 Mhz - 640 MB Ram - Radeon 9200 SE + AmigaOS 4.1 Update 6

@Fab

Quote:

Feel free to ask what you'd need there :)

This is the 2nd MorphOS developer in one day suggesting that! You both asked, so I'll try to put together something (nothing really rocket scientific, nevertheless).

Quote:

As for the "add" button to add a tooltype, that's a matter of taste, really... Free editing can be confusing.

Please let us stop this here. We really should not go this way. Further it's OT 'cos it has nothing to do with Reaction or MUI or Qt.

Last edited by cha05e90 on 27-Aug-2013 at 01:02 PM.

_________________
X1000|II/G4|440ep|2000/060|2000/040|1000

@samo79

that sounds good... I will present the idea on aros-exec and try to find someone who could do it (I have already a idea) and then setup a bounty. Hopefully the programmer who ported it to OS4 is also open to it (I do not know). In my view all basic and important parts should be opensource and identical on all platforms and I hope there will be more of it in future.