@thread

OK. i sat through roberto's chat tonight, and have come to a conclusion about the seriousness of all this. but first a big thanks to team*amiga for putting the IRC session together. and if you're wondering what we're talking about, check out this thread. and this one.

the feeling i got tonight was we seem to have another barry. it's like they're twins, only roberto is the polite one.



1. they are indeed renaming their linux distribution 'amiga' and they have not in any way secured the amiga trademark or licensed any of the marks whatsoever. they just consider it abandoned and are taking it for themselves. roberto stated he was registering the mark with the USPTO to make it official.

2. he believes his distro is the most user friendly, cutting-edge distro out there. but after reviewing an installation in virtualbox, it feels like a warmed over version of xubuntu with little more than modifications to install scripts, changed graphics, etc. he keeps hinting at a large user community, and even stated they have around 12,000 users. but there are no public mailing lists, no public fora, and a grand total of 580 downloads of his distro ISOs at sourceforge.net. over the past two years. to put that in perspective, the OS4 utility sysmon has had over 4100 downloads.

i thought, OK, huge community and following, right? let's check out google trends. they have search numbers for AmigaOS and MorphOS, surely they will for this linux distro. nope. not enough search volume over any period in google's dataset. this isn't conclusive by any means, but it doesn't really line up with claims of thousands of active users.

3. the business roberto runs, PC-opensystems, has five employees currently, all of whom have executive titles: CEO, COO, CTO, V.P. of product development, etc. they also have 'partners' like dell and acer. but that's not quite accurate as they pay for the privilege to resell their kit, like any other local PC shop. between the two it sounds like they're trying to seem bigger than they really are -- something which really reminds me of CUSA.

4. in addition to their linux distro they offer off-the-shelf hardware, re-badged, with linux, and sold for a hefty premium. the systems they offer can be had on amazon or even direct from their original manufacturers for hundreds less. again, shades of CUSA.

there are certainly a lot of promises being made by roberto, but based on their apparent lack of knowledge about developing in and for AOS, i really doubt their ability to deliver much of anything. do they just look at the amiga name and logos as free for the taking to sell linux barely modified on retail hardware rebadged for a huge premium? also i found it odd that every answer he gave during the IRC session felt like rehearsed "business-speak" with few specifics. there did not seem to be any real answers to serious questions posed, and they have no real experience whatsoever in developing on AOS, or any AOS-like environment. to be brutally honest my first reaction was that the whole thing sounded rather like overly optimistic horse***t.

if you're interested, i've mirrored the IRC log from this evening's chat (link). i'm not sure there is much point in reading through all of it, but knock yourselves out.

it's still early days, and my memories are somewhat tainted by the CUSA experience, but in the end there are two classes of 'amiga' groups around here: there are those who deliver (hyperion, acube, A-EON, MOS team, AROS devs) and then there are those that talk. they talk about how they'll do this, and they'll do that, and how wonderful things will be once they've solved all the problems for us since they have 'leet skillz. roberto says he'll be at amiwest, and also mentions cooperation with A-EON. so for now i'll just hope my reaction is unfounded; i look forward to see what happens between now and the get-together in sacramento. i'm sure everyone else does as well.



-- eliyahu

Last edited by eliyahu on 01-Jul-2013 at 04:30 AM.
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Last edited by eliyahu on 01-Jul-2013 at 04:18 AM.
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Last edited by eliyahu on 01-Jul-2013 at 12:29 AM.

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"Physical reality is consistent with universal laws. When the laws do not operate, there is no reality. All of this is unreal."

@eliyahu

you wont change your mind, but theres more than one place to download the distro you know?

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@Derfs

i am aware of that. such as ibiblio.org. but nothing suggests the kind of community he presents. nothing. there are tons of warning signs. here is the last point in the IRC chat:

Quote:

"OpenLinux" was a distribution from (IIRC) Caldera, you're old distribution logo was the old NeXT logo, the new distribution logo is a not-boingball and the current name of your distribution is borrowed from us. do you see a pattern here?

dunno about everyone else, but i do. i really, really, really hope i'm wrong. really.

-- eliyahu

_________________
"Physical reality is consistent with universal laws. When the laws do not operate, there is no reality. All of this is unreal."

@eliyahu

Who cares.

I had no expectations but was prepared to let him have his say. If he's not interested in the various Amiga systems it's no loss to us.

If he thinks he can in some way benefit from the Amiga branding then good luck to him, it doesn't affect in the same way that CUSA didn't and wouldn't have affected us.

@eliyahu

Woohooo! Roberto & company have promised to deliver Chromium, a GTK port and
a linux VM to Amiga OS4 by January 2014.

What a bunch of coding magicians!

heh

PJS

@Rob

I am not going to waste my time reading through the entire IRC log. I became more skeptical of this Roberto person, after reading a few of his replies in the earlier thread here at AW.net, and asked him to answer at least some of the questions that had been asked of him in that thread. I am still waiting for those answers.

That said, I am not going to be upset if this guy and his company never contribute anything toward our community. Nor am I going to get upset if he tries to hi-jack the Amiga trademarks, as anyone who takes the time to investigate will quickly see that his product(s) have nothing in common with the remaining Amiga community, or the original Amiga computers produced by Commodore during the mid 1980's to early 1990's.

If Amiga Inc. and/or Hyperion don't have the money, time or interest to defend what ever trademarks, or copyrights that still exist today, why should I get upset if someone else decides to use them.

If however Roberto, or any of his employees, can create any code, or drivers, which are helpful to the existing AmigaOS4.x, AmigaOS3.x, MorphOS3.x, or AROS communities, then great! Bring it on and show us what you can do, but I won't be holding my breath in the meantime, waiting for anything useful to come along from someone, or some company, that has zero previous experience with any of those platforms.

My advice to other Amiga users here is don't waste your time getting worked up about this guy, or his company. It is not worth your time, or raised blood pressure to worry about any of it. Learn from the CUSA experience, which did no harm to our community, and if anything, it might have gotten a few ex-Amiga users to come back and take a fresh look at what is happening in our community now.

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Amiga! The computer that inspired so many, to accomplish so much, but has ended up in the hands of . . . . . . . . . .

@amigadave

Quote:

If however Roberto, or any of his employees, can create any code, or drivers, which are helpful to the existing AmigaOS4.x, AmigaOS3.x, MorphOS3.x, or AROS communities, then great! Bring it on and show us what you can do, but I won't be holding my breath in the meantime, waiting for anything useful to come along from someone, or some company, that has zero previous experience with any of those platforms. My advice to other Amiga users here is don't waste your time getting worked up about this guy, or his company. It is not worth your time, or raised blood pressure to worry about any of it. Learn from the CUSA experience, which did no harm to our community, and if anything, it might have gotten a few ex-Amiga users to come back and take a fresh look at what is happening in our community now.

very well said.

-- eliyahu

_________________
"Physical reality is consistent with universal laws. When the laws do not operate, there is no reality. All of this is unreal."

Mod edit: Removed, flaming and personal attack. Personal opinions are one thing, slander is another thing entirely.

Last edited by Yo on 01-Jul-2013 at 12:25 PM.

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No PowerPC, No Fun
Make Amiga Great Again

@amigadave

I actually value your opinion Dave so I will post one more time before
I slip into the darkness of the moobunny plagued by posts from a person(s)
that clearly need medical attention.

I can tell you Roberto isn't lying about the legal status of things and that
this approach makes perfect sense.Any lawyer would tell you the same ...

As for the rest of the info ...

Roberto made a clear promise as I see it , and if he does half the things
that he promised in 2 x the time he would still do more for all current
Amiga users than anyone else in the current scene.
Also , if he manages to run his business in the outside world , and make
money off it he can PAY to do things he promised , right ?
I\m not holding my breath either but as I see it there is only a chance
for gain here , nobody will be at a loss.
And one of the thing he promised which I'm amazed you aren't even
noticing is the port of OS4 to G4 and G5.I wouldn't mind running it
if in dual boot with Morphos (which I'm also not using , I'm not even
using Aros , I\m using bloody Windows XP).
I will once again say , nothing happens - fine - as you were.
Something happens - AOS Morphos Aros AND Roberto win.

@blizz1220

he has never said a port of amiga os to G4/5, he said that about os4 powerlinux

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@Derfs

Hmmmmmm , yes now I see ... Words could have ambiguous meaning ...

Still , if he plans to do the rest of the process then I don't see why not
go all the way there ... He said "system sold by PC OpenSystems" ...

I'm not trying to troll , I don't have any information about this topic ...
But if A-Eon supported port and Hyperion gave blessing then I
don't see why it couldn't be done.It could be a way to get new PPC
hardware.I see (FROM HIS _SITE_) Roberto or someone working
for him has experience with fixing G4 G5 Powermacs ...
Fixing those relatively new and still pretty fast machines and selling
them with AmigaOS4 (with blessings) shouldn't be impossible then ...
Selling them with Morphos would then be a option also ...

Anyway , just an opinion , my own and I hope nobody will associate
things I said with anyone else ... And I AM being honest I bloody swear ...

@Thread

Is there a log of the IRC session? IRC is blocked on these computers at work so it's pointless me even attempting to look. The most I can find on any Q&A is here.

_________________
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Admin at Commodore Gaming Wiki

@CritAnime

yup. you can find it here: http://www.intuitionbase.com/roberto_irclog.txt

-- eliyahu

_________________
"Physical reality is consistent with universal laws. When the laws do not operate, there is no reality. All of this is unreal."

edit: nevermind

Last edited by terminills on 01-Jul-2013 at 03:19 AM.

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"AROS is prolly illegal ~ Evert Carton" intentionally quoted out of context for dramatic effect

I just skimmed through the chat, and yeah, it feels just like a polite version of CUSA. I also glanced over their 'shop' and see links to various PCs and Amazon Fires (for more than Amazon charges) and it looks like a simple affiliate page.

I'm not sure if it was asked at some point, but does OS 4 (Linux) have anything at all to do with the Amiga or any variation of Amiga OS, besides the name being similar to Amiga OS 4? Why would any Amiga person be interested in Linux OS4, when there are plenty of freebie Linux versions available already? And they are much better supported.

Maybe I missed something, but are they going the Anubis route and using a Linux kernel underneath an Amiga-ish desktop environment or something? Or are they simply using rebranded hardware at unusually high prices, bundled with Linux, and using an Amiga trademark (which seems rather iffy to me legally), and hoping for some bizarre reason that people here would be interested in it?

I admit I don't quite get what they are doing or how it makes any sense from a business perspective. But perhaps I misread something or missed info in the previous thread.

I am sorry, but I just cannot help it. Putting Amiga name on a Linux distribution is no different from putting Amiga on a PC that does not natively run the Amiga operating system. In my view, either is an abomination. Linux is Linux, Windows is Windows, Mac is --- erm -- Unix (heh). Really, I rather wish he would make Atari Open Linux instead. ;)

In all seriousness, my blood pressure does go up a bit at these things, but I will endeavor to keep that in check. I stopped fretting so much over CUSA when it became apparent CUSA would fail. I suspect in the end this outfit will similarly find the benefit to them to not be so great as they desire.

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Well no matter what happens it made for a lively Sunday IRC like I've not seen in years. Hurray for that.

Plaz

@eliyahu

Quote:

roberto stated he was registering the mark with the USPTO to make it official. -- eliyahu

http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4807:uqtmej.2.54

I think it is still live. So that should be interesting.

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A3000D (16mhz, 2MB Chip, 4MB Fast, SCSI (300+MB), SuperGen Genlock, Kick 3.1)
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Back in my day, we didn't have water. We only had Oxygen & Hydrogen, & we'd just shove 'em together

@Derfs

Quote:

he has never said a port of amiga os to G4/5, he said that about os4 powerlinux

I don't see a port to anything without the os4 source code, Hyp will never give that out, but stranger things have happened.

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Hate tends to make you look stupid...

@sundown

it would be very strange indeed if by never talking about an amigaos port to x86, or amigaos port to ppc macs, someone does it out of the blue.

the nearest thing to this that roberto actually said was UAE and aros with the os4 Linux distros

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