@itix

Quote:

itix wrote: @danwood Quote: Petro/Amiga Technologies at least got the A1200/A4000T back on the shelves, got OS 3.5 out of the door, made prototypes (The Amiga Walker) attended shows and got the Amiga back in stores. Petro nor AT never did anything useful. Amiga 1200/4000T was already outdated and overpriced.

You are of course the wizzard that can magically develop new systems without money...


Quote:

itix wrote: Just like Amiga Inc outsourced OS4 development to Hyperion, Amiga Technologies outsourced 3.5/3.9 "development" to H&P.

If it costed them less than developing it inhouse, I can see nothing wrong with that.

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itix wrote: The best Petro could do was lurking on Amiga events talking second coming of jeesus... err Amiga. It would have been better if AT dissolved itself.

Sorry - then you must be talking about a different Petro. The Petro I experienced on several Amiga fairs was busy with talking to developers about the next steps, talking to media representatives and patiently talking with members of the community about his visions and how to realise them with such a tiny budget...

_________________
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Dandy
__________________________________________
If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him.
He got his brain accidently - the bone marrow in his back would have been sufficient for him!
(Albert Einstein)

@itix

Petro is one of the nicest persons in Amiga history, together with Jim Collas. Yes, I am a MorphOS user, but my meeting with him at World of Amiga and his invitation to the food and Amiga presentation between AmiWest and WOA was fantastic.

Dont underestimate people just because you think of him doing nothing. I dont say that he was a legend or a hero, but he stood up with Amiga Technologies. That makes me proud of him.. also the competition between AmigaOS4 and MorphOS is infact good for the community. The developing is higher and discussions on OS4 channels about how bad morphos is and on morphos channels about how bad OS4 is... its a neverending story, but a good one.

Amiga is alive in our hearts, minds and discussions. It really is, and I like it and so do you :)

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Regards,
Michal, Amiga user since 1988
amitopia@gmail.com

@Dandy

Sorry, I didn't mean to push on you. I was just curious.

Regards
g0blin

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GDG Entertainment

Cybersphere Page

@Dandy

Quote:

Hmmm - why are you lying intentionally?

I am only saying the truth. Petro didnt do much. He couldn't do much because he had no money. He was only PR muppet in Amiga events and that is it.

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You should know very well that Petro brought the A1200 back on sale,

Not without bugs though.

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released OS 3.5 and commissioned OS3.9.

Amiga Technologies didn't develop nor release 3.5 or 3.9. Olaf Barthel and that NSD guy (his name escapes me) were working for AT but AFAIK work was done for free.

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Under his reign the decision was made to move the Amiga to PPC.

Everyone can make plans but only few execute their miraculous plans.

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MOS was planned to become the NG AmigaOS.

It was? That is news to me.

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CSPPC and BPPC were released.

By phase5. Nothing from AT. There was short period of co-operation until Escom went down.

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You are of course the wizzard that can magically develop new systems without money...

I thought AT was making real business....

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If it costed them less than developing it inhouse, I can see nothing wrong with that.

Indeed. AT was just an IP holder. Just like Amiga Inc licensing their technology Hyperion and Commodore.

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The Petro I experienced on several Amiga fairs was busy with talking to developers about the next steps, talking to media representatives and patiently talking with members of the community about his visions and how to realise them with such a tiny budget...

Very little results...

@AmiDelf

No doubt Petro was nice person. Unfortunately it is not enough to build business.

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Amiga Developer
Amiga 500, Efika, Mac Mini and PowerBook

@Rose

ahahah! nice, ilgulamc was my nick on amiga.org I started that topic.. It was a big surprise for me to know the reason why collas left! How sad he did..

@AmiDelf2

Quote:

The developing is higher and discussions on OS4 channels about how bad morphos is and on morphos channels about how bad OS4 is... its a neverending story, but a good one.

Discussion of how OS4 and MOS can be better, ported to more platforms and what we all can do (those who can programme can help smart bounties set by those who can) would be more fruitful.

Hope this two paths will cross one day.

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Future Acube and MOS supporter, fi di good, nothing fi di unprofessionals. Learn it harder way!

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Odd... if ALL big companies were gone from the Amiga scene around 90/ 92 then why were for example USA Gold producing the game "World Cup USA 94" for the Amiga...

No, what I mean by "relative to 90-92" is: "in 95, when compared with 90-92", all major companies had left the Amiga. Just look at the number of developments, released,... in 95. Also look at most successful releases/IP that were released during this time (Warcraft 2: anyone ? Doom, LucasArts games,...) and you'll see very few were released for the Amiga. Most companies had already switched to the PC. But I have lied, it's true, there were a few companies releasing stuff for the Amiga, and maybe one out of 50 games were also released on the Amiga, quickly ported. It's true. But it doesn't change the fact the Amiga was commercially dead by 1995. Wether you like it or not...

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http://www.warpdesign.fr/

@Leo

I first thought you didnt know what you were talking about, but now that you explained, i guess you are right.

For if game development took about 1.5 years (I Remember this being said about 8-bit Nintendo games, dont know about the rest) then indeed, after 92 they werent really planning that much Amiga games anymore, but PC games, and Amiga games were more of a side products if they were.

I also never realised how critical the A600 pushing A1200 release to one year later really was then. For had they released A1200 instead, maybe there had been some major releases aimed for A1200 instead, plus maybe game developers had pushed the 256 colors to games and hence made people upgrade to A1200, but that critical year later, many major ones who could have pushed that with their game releases were already gone.

For i remember people, plus myself, complaining that why do all the games still come to A500, and only few 256 color games there at all despite A1200 having been there for long already.

@itix

Quote:

itix wrote: @Dandy Quote: Hmmm - why are you lying intentionally? I am only saying the truth. Petro didnt do much. He couldn't do much because he had no money. He was only PR muppet in Amiga events and that is it.

Compared to McBill Petro did a lot. He wasn't just a "PR muppet" - he tried to do for the Amiga what he could with the money available.
According to his own claims, McBill has had millions (although I never believed that). But instead of investing at least parts of it into the Amiga, he preferred to con the Kent citizens...
If someone deserves the title "PR muppet" - then certainly BillMcEwing!

Quote:

itix wrote: Quote: You should know very well that Petro brought the A1200 back on sale, Not without bugs though.

The first AmigaOnes also came with bugs...

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itix wrote: Quote: released OS 3.5 and commissioned OS3.9. Amiga Technologies didn't develop nor release 3.5 or 3.9. Olaf Barthel and that NSD guy (his name escapes me) were working for AT but AFAIK work was done for free.

I never claimed that.
Maybe "released" was not the best term.

I visited the Amiga fair in Cologne where OS 3.5 was on sale for the first time and I was there when Petro held the speech on the introduction of OS 3.5 together with Jürgen Haage. That was what I meant with "released".

Nether Petro, nor I ever claimed that Petro or AT had developed OS 3.5 or OS 3.9.
But Petro gave the order to do it, as he was sure that this effort would pay off.

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itix wrote: Quote: Under his reign the decision was made to move the Amiga to PPC. Everyone can make plans but only few execute their miraculous plans.

Above you admitted that AT were underfunded. In the face of this underfunding Petro/AT achieved a lot and realised of their "miraculous plans" as much as was possible at the time. That's how I perceived it back then.

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itix wrote: Quote: MOS was planned to become the NG AmigaOS. It was? That is news to me.

Nobody can know everything...

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itix wrote: Quote: CSPPC and BPPC were released. By phase5. Nothing from AT.

Without Petro's/AT's prior decision to move the Amiga to PPC and without their plan to make MOS the NG Amiga OS and without their cooperation/agreement with P5 there would have been nothing in this regard from P5.

Quote:

itix wrote: Quote: You are of course the wizzard that can magically develop new systems without money... I thought AT was making real business....

Of course within the limitations of their fundings. It was no secret back then that AT wasn't MickeySoft and also didn't have funding like M$...
Was this not known in Italy?

Quote:

itix wrote: Quote: If it costed them less than developing it inhouse, I can see nothing wrong with that. Indeed. AT was just an IP holder. Just like Amiga Inc licensing their technology Hyperion and Commodore.

Hmmm - I seem to see a difference there: While AInc did all they could to hinder the development after the licensing to Hyperion (AFAIK they had no technology that they could have licensed to CUSA - they just gave a license to use the Amiga name for AIOs), Petro/AT did all to support their plans.
That's a big difference, IMHO.

Quote:

itix wrote: Quote: The Petro I experienced on several Amiga fairs was busy with talking to developers about the next steps, talking to media representatives and patiently talking with members of the community about his visions and how to realise them with such a tiny budget... Very little results...

Two OS updates and the PPC accelerator cards arose from Petro's efforts despite the near-to-non-existing-funding isn't exactly what I would call "very little result", I would call it a brilliant result instead.
Finally my CSPPC and OS 3.9/WarpOS 16.1 even today still serve me good...

_________________
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Dandy
__________________________________________
If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him.
He got his brain accidently - the bone marrow in his back would have been sufficient for him!
(Albert Einstein)

You know we could always ask him
Jim Collins Facebook
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Jim-Collins/48409150064#!/jimcollas?sk=info

Bill Gates killed the Amiga, I dont quite believe, the reason is I think this is Gateway actually finished the AmigaMCC project, a lot changed, for one they droped Amiga and change its design but still released it as the Gateway Touch Pad.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gateway_Touch_Pad
http://www.transmetazone.com/articleview.cfm?articleID=552

Note powered by the Transmeta CPU and Linux Based OS, plus even the design looks like one of the suggested concept/designs Amiga Format printed. I think the deal with AOL most likely removed the Amiga brand from the project. probably a good thing in the end.

Last edited by amigang on 08-Dec-2011 at 09:14 AM.
Last edited by amigang on 08-Dec-2011 at 09:12 AM.

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AmigaNG, YouTube, LeaveReality Studio

@thread

Slow day, so just for those who want to follow the track:

@clusteruk

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If all that is true then maybe that is why Gateway cancelled the Siamese PCI Amiga project,

@Akiko

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Well it makes sense, Gateway was a massive company back then and attempting to revive the Amiga must have at least registered at Microsoft.

@Bugala

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If I correctly remember, this was also mentioned in Amiga Future Magazines Amiga Retrospective articles by RT Dickinson. What interestes me is what was RT Dickinsons source for this comment, or just rumors?

@natamix

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there was a chance to return to stand and to compete

@amigadave

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I don't think it is out of the realm of possibility that Gates, or someone else at MS threatened Gateway with unfavorable prices for Windows OEM licenses to remove any threat of Amiga making any kind of comeback.

@Troels

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But I will accept the theory that they heard that QNX/Linux was to be marketed as Amiga desktop and sold with Gatesway pc's. Then it seems likely that they told Gatesway that if they began delivering a non-MS OS, windows price would be much more expensive making Gatesways PC's unattractive for costumers.

@Mechanic

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Microsoft did not set out to destroy any particular platform. They only enforced their contracts with the hardware makers.

@AP

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Getaway didn´t support Collas very much and that he heard a rumor, that this was because Getaway don´t want to have a conflict with Bill Gates/Microsoft.

+1 to all the above

Confirmation by Carl Sassenrath and a clarification

#6

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This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
*Secrecy has served us so well*

@number6

The Revivator strikes again!

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"Unix is supposed to fix that." -- Jay Miner

This should shed some light on how MS treats any competitor or perceived competitor.

http://www.ecis.eu/documents/Finalversion_Consumerchoicepaper.pdf

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Sent from my Quantum Computer.

@DiscreetFX

I understand that trashing MS is a fun and rewarding hobby, but to them it's simply 'business', don't you agree?

Besides, this is clouding the salient points of this thread: that Amiga Inc is *just* a licensee and that Hyperion is a mere sub-licensee. AND under the Lanham Act, sublicensees have NO rights.

So, this might this explain why Amiga Inc. never sold any Amiga branded h/w. Hmm?

edit: added wiki link for convenience.

Last edited by Yo on 31-Aug-2013 at 05:07 PM.

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¤¤ Official Hyperion Zealot ¤¤

(No, I didn't type that with a straight face.)

@Yo

I was not trying to trash anyone. Just passing along a research paper PDF not done by me detailing events of the past relevant to the topic of this thread ( the chairman of the board of MS killing the Amiga) . The PDF I linked has examples of MS doing this to other companies.

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Sent from my Quantum Computer.

@Yo

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trashing MS is a fun

Obviously more fun than using/sucking trashy MS softwares. That is surely not fun.

@danwood

When bill and apple start up bill gate took something from apple maybe that way bill give apple some cash to apple Quote:

danwood wrote: Why would Bill Gates go out of his way to "kill the Amiga" in 1999 when it had already been commercially dead for 5 years, and then on the other hand inject a load of money into Apple in the same year to keep them alive? Surely the Mac is/was much more of a threat by then than the Amiga, yet Bill/MS actively kept it alive by investing millions in company shares when they were very close to going the way of Commodore.

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maybe i am dyslexia

An Apple a day keep bill gates away

@AmiDelf2

Everyone nicest when you face to face. He as to be nices to everyone but behide a computer screen he may not be nice to us all

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maybe i am dyslexia

An Apple a day keep bill gates away

@Dandy

Many insiders know what you are saying here. But its not "Bill Gates" it was "Microsoft" and yes they leaned on gateway but there is more elements to it. There was a lot of jealousy and backstabbing in the upper levels of gateway at that time as well. Jim Collas could have been the best thing to EVER happen to the amiga. At the time he wanted to go x86 with a Linux kernel for Amiga os.

The best part is Jim left the company sold all his stock for a fortune (he was a senior vp) and soon after Gateway's stock plumetted!

@Dandy

Quote:

After Jim Collas left the scene Petro wanted to buy the Amiga and already had a contract ready to be signed that sold him all Amiga for one dollar, but then McBill turned up with 3 Million bucks and so he got the acceptance. McBill took some 70,000 $ from the Amiga account without informing the others, what Petro didn't like at all. Furthermore Petro was convinced that McBill and Fleecy and Co were not professional enough to work with them and so he resigned. To avoid flurry among the community it was officially announced that he had retired.

Hmm did not know some of that stuff. Interesting. thanks for the report. I can say I met both Bill and Fleecy and Fleecy was a real tosser. Back then Bill seemed like a good business guy and I can tell you that EVERYONE in the amiga community LOVED him at that time. Well not everyone, but most. Then his true colors came out. I started having problems with them when they wouldnt put any money in the us amiga shows even though they had investment money. What a strange deal this all was. BTW we got our amiga branding license from Bill M himself. I even made him and petro boing amiga ties with the "powered by amiga " logo