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      /  It's time to join the forces - Part III
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number6 
Re: It's time to join the forces - Part III
Posted on 10-May-2011 17:40:04
#41 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 9749
From: In the village

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:
WookieChat is a close source multi-platform application.


Might not be the best example, since it's not really actively developed since last year.

#6

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wawa 
Re: It's time to join the forces - Part III
Posted on 10-May-2011 18:08:35
#42 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 5690
From: Unknown

im sorry, as kas1e pointed out amiga has become a "generation ship" already, where no individual counts, only the common sence. contrary to his conclusions, even though very liberal for an os4 user/dev, it cannot succeed/sustain in a longer therm, closed source. in a short distance it can still win something, see mos, perhaps os4 classic, but the breath will not last long. such a fregile entity cannot remain bound to yet more fragile and moody human beings or small companies, to survive. therefore aros and 68k! as both can be easily exploited by the remaining amiga branches.

Last edited by wawa on 10-May-2011 at 06:10 PM.

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cha05e90 
Re: It's time to join the forces - Part III
Posted on 10-May-2011 19:03:40
#43 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Apr-2009
Posts: 1251
From: Germany

@number6

Ok - Hollywood, then.

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HenryCase 
Re: It's time to join the forces - Part III
Posted on 10-May-2011 19:29:44
#44 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 12-Nov-2007
Posts: 688
From: Unknown

@OldFart

Quote:
OldFart wrote:

Quote:
And even if it would be possible to agree on some standards (if there is a will)

This would mean bending API's to a common denominator. The very nature of the flavours prohibits this.

OldFart

EDIT: Even in the Unix realm, in all its splendour of different flavours, which will bleak the Amiga's in comparison, with all its might, glory and resources, this has proven virtually unfeasable.


Eh? I take it you've not heard of POSIX then? Agreeing on standards does not have to mean every part of the OS has common standards. Take AHI for example, it's a standard across all Amiga flavours. Did the existence of AHI stop diversification in other areas? No it did not. Stop presenting this false dichotomy of all elements standardised vs. no elements standardised, there is a middle ground.

The middle ground is to choose certain standards everyone benefits from developing together. Drivers are an obvious choice, most users don't give a flying f*ck how hardware works as long as it does, working on a common, open driver pool benefits us all. AHI is there already, Poseidon could be. On another OS level, I still hold out high hopes for Zune.

In the meantime, it's great to see application developers port their work to multiple platforms, and see application developers help other application developers with porting advice. I can think of AROS, MorphOS and AmigaOS application developers who have helped out their fellow Amigan. Seems to me like this is going to be where most of the growth in co-operation will happen for now. Long may it continue.

Last edited by HenryCase on 10-May-2011 at 07:40 PM.

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AmigaBlitter 
Re: It's time to join the forces - Part III
Posted on 10-May-2011 19:36:15
#45 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 26-Sep-2005
Posts: 3292
From: Unknown

@Channel_Z

Quote:
Yes, MOS uses AROS sources and contributed sources back to AROS. AmigaOS has been using AROS components as far back as 3.5. (Colorwheel, among other things)


We are not far from each other :)

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amitv 
Re: It's time to join the forces - Part III
Posted on 10-May-2011 19:46:25
#46 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 23-Oct-2006
Posts: 342
From: Unknown

I agree! Only united we can get more attention and more change to back on the market!!!
We have talented engineers
We have talented Programmer
We have talented hardware designer
We have talented directors
We have talented Designer (see latest loriano case)

Only united we can back on the market

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Panthro 
Re: It's time to join the forces - Part III
Posted on 11-May-2011 2:18:56
#47 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 31-May-2006
Posts: 385
From: Unknown

Now that Mac OS has gone X86 I find my Amiga is one of the few real
alternatives to the main stream monotony.

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jkirk 
Re: It's time to join the forces - Part III
Posted on 11-May-2011 13:53:50
#48 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jan-2005
Posts: 3347
From: Georgia (usa)

@NutsAboutAmiga

i never insinuated any of that. what i was aiming for is leaving the ppc aos4 and morphos alone but build from aros to make the x86 versions of their os. this would save development time and money. then they can add the proprietary stuff for their individual look and feel.

just because they buld from open source projects does not lock out the possibility of having a proprietary product. the only open source pieces is the ones they take (and improve) in aros. those improvements will aid aros and any other os using the source.

think in terms of linux kernel vs debian vs red hat

case in point
hyperion decides to use the driver system in aros but feels it is not robust enough.
they modify the driver system to their liking (or collaborate with the other devs) then release the modified code back to the aros team allowing drivers to be created for all os installs rather than have a different driver for each os.

in this situation not only does it save on development times but they do not have to create all the drivers for the hardware themselves. opening the door to amiga hardware manufacturers/resellers developing their own drivers.

Last edited by jkirk on 11-May-2011 at 02:27 PM.
Last edited by jkirk on 11-May-2011 at 02:21 PM.
Last edited by jkirk on 11-May-2011 at 02:20 PM.

_________________
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Hypex 
Re: It's time to join the forces - Part III
Posted on 11-May-2011 15:47:14
#49 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 8560
From: Greensborough, Australia

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:
And the second they open source MorphOS or AmigaOS4, they can no longer make money on licenses, no more full time developers / contractors working on the OS.


I agree. Lets's take the most popular OS on the planet as an example: Windows. That's closed source and forever developed to be the best. (Not saying it is but that's how it's treated by the world.)

What happen if Windows went open source? Boom! Bye bye Billys dream.

Okay that's a far reaching comparison, but I was just thinking about it.

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AmigaBlitter 
Re: It's time to join the forces - Part III
Posted on 11-May-2011 16:39:56
#50 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 26-Sep-2005
Posts: 3292
From: Unknown

@amitv

Quote:
I agree! Only united we can get more attention and more change to back on the market!!! We have talented engineers We have talented Programmer We have talented hardware designer We have talented directors We have talented Designer (see latest loriano case) Only united we can back on the market




Yeah! Imagine what they can do all together...

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jkirk 
Re: It's time to join the forces - Part III
Posted on 11-May-2011 18:14:18
#51 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jan-2005
Posts: 3347
From: Georgia (usa)

@Hypex

Quote:
What happen if Windows went open source? Boom! Bye bye Billys dream.


yea what if linux went open source? oh yea.

red hat
open source profits

Last edited by jkirk on 11-May-2011 at 06:14 PM.

_________________
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cha05e90 
Re: It's time to join the forces - Part III
Posted on 11-May-2011 18:44:04
#52 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Apr-2009
Posts: 1251
From: Germany

@jkirk

Being open source doesn't help to conquer the world. It's market share has grown - but the dominating OS is still closed source - it hasn't changed since the beginning of consumer market micro computers.

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HenryCase 
Re: It's time to join the forces - Part III
Posted on 11-May-2011 18:51:28
#53 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 12-Nov-2007
Posts: 688
From: Unknown

@jkirk

Quote:

jkirk wrote:
@Hypex

Quote:
What happen if Windows went open source? Boom! Bye bye Billys dream.


yea what if linux went open source? oh yea.

red hat
open source profits


jkirk, as you're quite right in pointing out, it is possible to make money both with closed and open-sourced software, but does require switching from selling a product to selling services (technical support being the main one). However, Microsoft have outsourced their technical support by and large, and software is their main source of income (unlike companies that develop Linux without offering paid support) so if they did open-source their main products their bottom line would suffer, as they would have given themselves too much competition in the IT service sector.

Even if they switched to an Internet-authorised subscription model, they wouldn't be able to open the source without losing money, as opening up the source code would make it easier for pirates to find ways around anti-piracy measures.

So whilst I am a big fan of open source software, I still recognise when it's not an appropriate path for a company to follow. Hope this makes sense to you too.

Last edited by HenryCase on 11-May-2011 at 06:53 PM.

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AmigaBlitter 
Re: It's time to join the forces - Part III
Posted on 12-May-2011 11:19:43
#54 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 26-Sep-2005
Posts: 3292
From: Unknown

@jkirk

This thread is about join the forces, not going open source. Maybe the open source could be discussed after the parties joins the forces.

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HenryCase 
Re: It's time to join the forces - Part III
Posted on 12-May-2011 12:07:31
#55 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 12-Nov-2007
Posts: 688
From: Unknown

@AmigaBlitter
Quote:

AmigaBlitter wrote:
@jkirk

This thread is about join the forces, not going open source. Maybe the open source could be discussed after the parties joins the forces.



I'm sorry that wouldn't work. Not everyone wants a closed-source OS, AROS fans have nothing to gain from AROS source being closed off.

The best way to get things going with co-operation between Amiga flavours is to accept that you aren't going to see all the operating systems merge into one overnight.

Better to accept things as they are and help developers help each other out. What can users do to help out? Stop arguing about pointless stuff, build a more positive community. That way, when developers do want to co-operate, they haven't got to face ridicule by any side. Despite what OS4 developers say, I'd say the tendency towards negativity is EXACTLY why OS4 doesn't have USB2 support yet by adopting Poseidon. What reason would they have to pass up proven free code that should be easy enough to integrate other than pride? Why would that pride be potentially tarnished if they adopted Poseidon? The whole Red vs Blue conflict.

Hope this helps you be a little more realistic, do think your heart is in the right place. Just think, small victories are better than no victories at all.

Last edited by HenryCase on 12-May-2011 at 12:08 PM.

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AmigaBlitter 
Re: It's time to join the forces - Part III
Posted on 12-May-2011 12:16:37
#56 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 26-Sep-2005
Posts: 3292
From: Unknown

@HenryCase

I agree, but let me consider this as a starting point. Actually there are not guidelines established by the parties on common goals. I not talking about something like LSB yet, but some sort of common talks to start.

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Hypex 
Re: It's time to join the forces - Part III
Posted on 12-May-2011 12:45:09
#57 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 8560
From: Greensborough, Australia

@jkirk

Linux is open source. And AFAIK has been that way since the beginning. AmigaOS is another matter.

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HenryCase 
Re: It's time to join the forces - Part III
Posted on 12-May-2011 13:27:36
#58 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 12-Nov-2007
Posts: 688
From: Unknown

@AmigaBlitter

Quote:

AmigaBlitter wrote:
@HenryCase

I agree, but let me consider this as a starting point. Actually there are not guidelines established by the parties on common goals. I not talking about something like LSB yet, but some sort of common talks to start.



I don't think you need anything as formal as talks, what would you expect to be on the agenda anyway?

Encourage cooperation between application developers, and driver developers. Cooperation between core OS developers is a long way off, but is more likely to happen if they can see the benefits that applications and drivers have had from people helping each other out.

Last edited by HenryCase on 12-May-2011 at 01:28 PM.

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AmigaBlitter 
Re: It's time to join the forces - Part III
Posted on 12-May-2011 14:04:57
#59 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 26-Sep-2005
Posts: 3292
From: Unknown

@HenryCase

Quote:
Cooperation between core OS developers is a long way off, but is more likely to happen if they can see the benefits that applications and drivers have had from people helping each other out.


How could we encourage them?

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HenryCase 
Re: It's time to join the forces - Part III
Posted on 12-May-2011 14:31:58
#60 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 12-Nov-2007
Posts: 688
From: Unknown

@AmigaBlitter

Quote:
AmigaBlitter wrote:
How could we encourage them?


I just told you that! By showing them the benefits that cooperation brings.

Focus your attention on getting all Amiga software on all Amiga platforms, that should give you plenty to get on with.

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