@Kronos

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Kronos wrote: @Lou 2 suns ? Thats simple: A stellar object bright enough to stay visible while "close" to the sun (when watched from earth) can't just appear and dissapear at random. So we now ruled out the possibilty of those videos showing an actual 2nd sun. This leaves: a) optical illusions b) fakes c) a small very close to earth object burning up in the atmosphere But some people still insist on believing any nonsense "cos its on da internex"

http://www.space.com/11038-china-suns-video-unexplained.html
Science could not explain the China one:
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Several related atmospheric optical effects are fully explained by science. Sun dogs, sunset mirages, sun pillars and sun halos are all relatively common and well understood. But not this effect.

http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-subclass-cnt.aspx?cid=1305&MainCatID=13&id=20110306000011

So scientists say they don't know...yet the scientists on AW.net seem to be geniuses...

According to the Sumerians, how one will know it's Nibiru (translated from tablets):

"The one who crosses the middle of the sea without calm, may his name be Nibiru, for he takes up the center of it"

"When the stars of Enlil have been finished, one big star - although its light is dim - divides the sky in half and stands there: that is, the star of Marduk, Nibiru"

The sumerian Nibiru symbol (also used for later cultures and religions):



Nibiru could be wing shaped (planets at the outside following its relatively fast moving in direction changing star) and/or cross shaped when it passes.

Last edited by MikeB on 08-Apr-2011 at 09:14 PM.

@MikeB

I think the reason it may look wing-shaped is because it probably has rings...and leave a trail like a comet but not as large a tail as a comet.

@Lou

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It looks like you've failed math. If China has 10x the population of a country, then it potentially has 10x the # of geniuses. Simple really.

Nice personal attack there.

What I said: one in five population = one in five geniuses. What Lou thinks I said? Who knows. Perhaps he reads my posts using the same method Sitchin reads Sumerian tablets.

And if most of those geniuses are still stuck in agricultural or manual labour jobs, what then, eh?


Now, for your double sun BS.

First point - were these double suns there the day before they were observed? Were they there the day after? Where did they go? How does it move so damn fast?

Second: Sun dogs, sunset mirages, sun pillars and sun halos are other optical phenomena all relatively common and well understood. Yet in years past, people like you pointed at them and spoke of prophecies and wrathful gods in fear and ignorance. You would have us return to those days, before we attempted to understand the world, when we simply waited for god/gods/aliens to hand out all the answers.

The China phenomenon you use is another example. To quote Kapler in your link:

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The double sun image is an effect of optical refraction

That is the fact of the matter. Its optical, because it has had no gravitational effect on the Earth or the planets. nor has it been detected independently by IR or any other means of observation. If something only crops up in visible light from ground observations, its an atmospheric refraction effect, not a second sun.

You can convince me that there are two suns. All you have to do is provide satellite imagery of one and back up those images with your model for the solar system based on those observations and known laws of motion.

Of course, you don't trust government agencies with satellites, do you? Well, its OK! Help is at hand! All you loonies have to do is to pool your book revenues. Von Daniken, Sitchin's estate and Velikovsky can plonk a bucket of cash down in front of the guys at SpaceDev, and you can get independent, private confirmation of your theories.

Go ahead, its only $9m dollars, which you can raise easily from displaying a few more fraudulent 'ooparts' and publishing some more pop-pseudoscience panicbooks. If you can get genuine orbital photos confirmed by the Sierra Nevada Corporation I linked to the story about, or a private space company that we can both agree is regarded as reputable, of two suns, along with IR and evidence for this second sun's gravitational effect on the rest of the solar system, I shall eat my hat.


Oh, and its still you that's clinging to faith to explain the world. You will not accept any rational explanation. I have told you, provide evidence that hasn't been filtered through a complex atmosphere and often a double glazed window and I'll add it to the list of known observed physical bodies science needs to explain. Until then, it goes in the weird optical effects bin.

Faith in Sitchin is not science.

@MikeB

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According to the Sumerians, how one will know it's Nibiru (translated from tablets):

According to Sumerians my foot. Sitchin again? His translations have been proven false and are considered pure baloney by every scholar and linguist working on the early Near East civilisations.

See the work of Dr Heiser for a brief explanation, which references the peer-reviewed literature and uses translations of Sumerian that fit with what we know from the Akkadian-Sumerian dictionaries. Don't believe me, Dr Heiser, or any of the other scientists, archaeologists and linguists working in the field? Look it up yourself, then.

Last edited by T-J on 08-Apr-2011 at 09:49 PM.
Last edited by T-J on 08-Apr-2011 at 09:44 PM.

@T-J

Quote:

T-J wrote: @Lou Quote: It looks like you've failed math. If China has 10x the population of a country, then it potentially has 10x the # of geniuses. Simple really. Nice personal attack there.

No more than you calling me religious...

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What I said: one in five population = one in five geniuses. What Lou thinks I said? Who knows. Perhaps he reads my posts using the same method Sitchin reads Sumerian tablets. And if most of those geniuses are still stuck in agricultural or manual labour jobs, what then, eh?

Ofcourse, that explains why they've copied and reproduced all our technological designs...cuz that's what farmers do...

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Now, for your double sun BS. First point - were these double suns there the day before they were observed? Were they there the day after? Where did they go? How does it move so damn fast? Second: Sun dogs, sunset mirages, sun pillars and sun halos are other optical phenomena all relatively common and well understood. Yet in years past, people like you pointed at them and spoke of prophecies and wrathful gods in fear and ignorance. You would have us return to those days, before we attempted to understand the world, when we simply waited for god/gods/aliens to hand out all the answers. The China phenomenon you use is another example. To quote Kapler in your link: Quote: The double sun image is an effect of optical refraction

That's only a scientist making an assumption...who then goes on to state that the possibilities for the conditions of this assumption are next to none.

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That is the fact of the matter. Its optical, because it has had no gravitational effect on the Earth or the planets. nor has it been detected independently by IR or any other means of observation. If something only crops up in visible light from ground observations, its an atmospheric refraction effect, not a second sun. You can convince me that there are two suns. All you have to do is provide satellite imagery of one and back up those images with your model for the solar system based on those observations and known laws of motion. Of course, you don't trust government agencies with satellites, do you? Well, its OK! Help is at hand! All you loonies have to do is to pool your book revenues. Von Daniken, Sitchin's estate and Velikovsky can plonk a bucket of cash down in front of the guys at SpaceDev, and you can get independent, private confirmation of your theories.

Was that a personal attack there?
My postulation is that it's a reflection. If Nibiru has gold dust in it's atmosphere and is on the other side of the sun, this would explain the dimmer 'reflection' of light from the far side of the sun bouncing of Nibiru then being reflected back to the earth making it look bigger that it really is compared to the sun but dimmer. No, light does not equal gravity, but the fact that it's getting close is affecting the earth's plates and magnetic field which is what ties everything together. Depending on the time of year, the sun would obscure it completely. Also the Sun's own gravity would bend the light further limiting when we could see it.

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Go ahead, its only $9m dollars, which you can raise easily from displaying a few more fraudulent 'ooparts' and publishing some more pop-pseudoscience panicbooks. If you can get genuine orbital photos confirmed by the Sierra Nevada Corporation I linked to the story about, or a private space company that we can both agree is regarded as reputable, of two suns, along with IR and evidence for this second sun's gravitational effect on the rest of the solar system, I shall eat my hat.

Tell you what, why don't you loan me $9M? I'll pay you back, I promise.

Last edited by Lou on 08-Apr-2011 at 10:00 PM.

@Lou

Among the revelations of the prophet Sitchin is the announcement that nibiru and the Annunaki will return. May 2003 was the date if I remember correctly.

Of course 2003 was a busy year for me so I must have been a bit distracted and not noticed them knocking at the door. A bit like the bus passengers in your "two suns" video, who seem to consider an extra sun to be a normal part of the daily commute to work.

Any gravitational source in the solar system stong enough to ping up a tectonic plate or two is going to affect the orbit of the moon. As yet it has failed to go charging off in to the wide blue yonder

Last edited by Nimrod on 08-Apr-2011 at 10:05 PM.

_________________
When in trouble, fear or doubt, run in circles, scream and shout.

@Lou

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No more than you calling me religious...

Nothing wrong with being religious, so I don't see how that's supposed to be a personal attack. But you shouldn't try to pass off faith as science, as you keep doing.

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who then goes on to state that the possibilities for the conditions of this assumption are next to none.

Wasn't it you who tried to use Quantum possibilities to handwave how the even more unlikely proposal of Nibiru plus space alien-gods could come to be?

I think I'll borrow that excuse, thanks old chap!

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Ofcourse, that explains why they've copied and reproduced all our technological designs...cuz that's what farmers do...

Copied and reproduced, eh? Whatever, I'm sticking to what I said - China has one fifth of the world's population and therefore one fifth of the world's potential genius. Humans are humans, ethnicity has very little to say on the matter.

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My postulation is that it's a reflection. If Nibiru has gold dust in it's atmosphere and is on the other side of the sun, this would explain the dimmer 'reflection' of light from the far side of the sun bouncing of Nibiru then being reflected back to the earth making it look bigger that it really is compared to the sun but dimmer. No, light does not equal gravity, but the fact that it's getting close is affecting the earth's plates and magnetic field which is what ties everything together. Depending on the time of year, the sun would obscure it completely. Also the Sun's own gravity would bend the light further limiting when we could see it.

Not one sentence in that is consistent with observed and confirmed geology, astronomy or physics. Every one of the points you list I have already addressed previously in this thread. Put very basically, you have not one shred of evidence that stands against the accepted explanations of optics, tectonics and geomagnetism.

And have you ever heard of Occam's Razor?

The most glaring error, though? An object that you claim is a brown dwarf (smaller and less massive than a main sequence star) is located on the other side of the sun from us. So, hundreds of millions of miles away. Yet already its gravitational effects are supposedly causing earthquakes and so on, generally influencing the Earth far in excess of that effect which the sun is capable of, while remaining completely undetectable and while having no effect on any other body near us.
Bunk.


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Tell you what, why don't you loan me $9M? I'll pay you back, I promise.

No point, the universe will be destroyed Next Thursday, by You. You made it Last Thursday with the intention of destroying it Next Thursday, once it has fulfilled its ultimate purpose.

You still haven't managed to prove me wrong about that, you know.

Last edited by T-J on 08-Apr-2011 at 10:33 PM.
Last edited by T-J on 08-Apr-2011 at 10:32 PM.
Last edited by T-J on 08-Apr-2011 at 10:30 PM.

@Lou

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Ok, I have linked videos of people observing 2 suns. Please recreate the results at a designated time and location of your choosing.

It's fairly easy to recreate the results of a video of people observing 2 suns. I've done two moons in ImageFX. Haven't tried much working with video but I think I know someone that could help with the image. I could overlay the oohs and ahhs from the video you linked to if you want.

Now if you mean the event itself. There is a different from a natural mirage occurring and a man-made mirage occuring. Certainly I've seen double suns in reflections off lakes. I've also seen images projected onto mist/smoke at concerts. Putting this together atmospheric refraction would be one possible physical explaination that hasn't been ruled out.

As I said as important to observation is the analysis to verify what you observed is really what you observed. If there was really two suns there's be huge (litterly) gravitational implications. If there were really two suns everyone around the world (where it's daylight) would see this at once instead of a comparatively small number in a limited area of China. And certainly the next day when people awoke they'd see 2 suns. Yet NONE of this evidence existed. People observed...1 SUN...

Be careful not to conflate the unexplained by claiming it to be unexplainable.

@Lou

First sightings I would expect to look like this:

Day 1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xajl-9SR1Bw

Day 2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHxqMfVcOuc

A slow moving (almost only moving due to earth's rotation) bearded dim star high above the atmosphere! (This thing is HUGE!)

Last edited by MikeB on 08-Apr-2011 at 10:53 PM.

@MikeB

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Day 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHxqMfVcOuc

Commentary on video 1:02 to 1:05
"To me it looks like they.... split up"

That is one clever death star

_________________
When in trouble, fear or doubt, run in circles, scream and shout.

Note the shape of Nostradamus' beard.



When it flies over it will probably make the east-asian remember their dragon.

Wow, I want some of whatever you guys are smoking...

_________________
Hate tends to make you look stupid...

This guy did quite some research various symbolism in relation to Nibiru:

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/hercolobus/esp_hercolobus_60.htm

@Nimrod

Quote:

Nimrod wrote: @Lou Among the revelations of the prophet Sitchin is the announcement that nibiru and the Annunaki will return. May 2003 was the date if I remember correctly. Of course 2003 was a busy year for me so I must have been a bit distracted and not noticed them knocking at the door. A bit like the bus passengers in your "two suns" video, who seem to consider an extra sun to be a normal part of the daily commute to work. Any gravitational source in the solar system stong enough to ping up a tectonic plate or two is going to affect the orbit of the moon. As yet it has failed to go charging off in to the wide blue yonder

Actually it was a range that was given because orbits vary every cycle.

It's not going to be close like the moon but somewhere in our solar system. Even the moon moves tides by what 20 feet? Besides it's not gravity that's the problem but the magnetic wave interference as well as the satellite debris it could be dragging with it.

@T-J

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T-J wrote: @Lou Quote: No more than you calling me religious... Nothing wrong with being religious, so I don't see how that's supposed to be a personal attack. But you shouldn't try to pass off faith as science, as you keep doing.

It's wrong if you knew what my views of religious people are.
You continue to pass gas. I state this is what I believe, your science be damned.

Quote:

Quote: who then goes on to state that the possibilities for the conditions of this assumption are next to none. Wasn't it you who tried to use Quantum possibilities to handwave how the even more unlikely proposal of Nibiru plus space alien-gods could come to be?

It's more plausible than Darwinism or Creationism.


Quote:

Quote: Ofcourse, that explains why they've copied and reproduced all our technological designs...cuz that's what farmers do... Copied and reproduced, eh? Whatever, I'm sticking to what I said - China has one fifth of the world's population and therefore one fifth of the world's potential genius. Humans are humans, ethnicity has very little to say on the matter.

It still means that there are more geniuses in China than any other country.

Quote:

Quote: My postulation is that it's a reflection. If Nibiru has gold dust in it's atmosphere and is on the other side of the sun, this would explain the dimmer 'reflection' of light from the far side of the sun bouncing of Nibiru then being reflected back to the earth making it look bigger that it really is compared to the sun but dimmer. No, light does not equal gravity, but the fact that it's getting close is affecting the earth's plates and magnetic field which is what ties everything together. Depending on the time of year, the sun would obscure it completely. Also the Sun's own gravity would bend the light further limiting when we could see it. Not one sentence in that is consistent with observed and confirmed geology, astronomy or physics. Every one of the points you list I have already addressed previously in this thread. Put very basically, you have not one shred of evidence that stands against the accepted explanations of optics, tectonics and geomagnetism.

Gravity bends light, this is a fact. "Accepted explanations" ROFL! Until something is observed for apparently the first time, there is no accepted explanation.

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The most glaring error, though? An object that you claim is a brown dwarf (smaller and less massive than a main sequence star) is located on the other side of the sun from us. So, hundreds of millions of miles away. Yet already its gravitational effects are supposedly causing earthquakes and so on, generally influencing the Earth far in excess of that effect which the sun is capable of, while remaining completely undetectable and while having no effect on any other body near us. Bunk.

I don't claim it's a brown dwarf. Typical of the skeptic who refuses to equally be judged to put words in people's mouths. It's also been detected in 1983.

Follow the money.

The issue is the earth's magnetic field, not gravity. Perhaps you should research how it's been changing lately...as well as the ionosphere...

Quote:

Quote: Tell you what, why don't you loan me $9M? I'll pay you back, I promise. No point, the universe will be destroyed Next Thursday, by You. You made it Last Thursday with the intention of destroying it Next Thursday, once it has fulfilled its ultimate purpose. You still haven't managed to prove me wrong about that, you know.

Actually, the statement simply proves you live under a bridge.

@Lou

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ROFL! Until something is observed for apparently the first time, there is no accepted explanation.

But these optical effects have been observed before... They've been explained, as several of us here have explained several times. Its just that your blind faith in Sitchin's 'good story' means you continue to refer to his Scripture to 'disprove' me.

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I don't claim it's a brown dwarf. Typical of the skeptic who refuses to equally be judged to put words in people's mouths. It's also been detected in 1983.

Sitchin does. And as I have said multiple times, the 'detection' in 1983 is not true - that was the misidentification of some distant galaxies as a planet. This is possible because the low-resolution equipment available at the time mistook incredibly huge warm objects at unimaginably vast distance (galaxies) for small, slightly warmer than background objects nearby (planets).

All explained by looking at the data.

But your faith means you can't accept that, you decided it must be a conspiracy to cover up the One True Faith as revealed by the Prophet Sitchin.

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The issue is the earth's magnetic field, not gravity. Perhaps you should research how it's been changing lately...as well as the ionosphere...

I've already addressed that, too. In short, the Earth's magnetic field is behaving quite normally and in accordance with the theory of geomagnetism. And the ionosphere is showing no signs of magic either. Are you paying any attention?

But again, when faced with evidence contrary to Sitchin, your faith meant that you simply rejected science and substituted fiction.

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Actually, the statement simply proves you live under a bridge.

No, come on, tell me. How does Sitchin disprove Last Thursday? Can he? Because Last Thursday tells a much neater story than Sitchin does, no loose ends whatsoever. By your own criteria for choosing what to believe, Last Thursday is the better theory.

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I state this is what I believe, your science be damned.

That's what I was after, a clear statement that your faith is not based in science and therefore has no bearing on it.

Last edited by T-J on 09-Apr-2011 at 01:28 AM.
Last edited by T-J on 09-Apr-2011 at 12:54 AM.

@MikeB

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Note the shape of Nostradamus' beard.

Oh dear.

@T-J

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@Lou

I don't have to look at videos or pictures nor do I have to provide an explaination to know for sure that the explaination you are trying to push is pure humbug.....

Now let us just for fun play a bit "2010" and ignite Jupiter to form a 2nd star in our solar system.

If Jupiter was close to be behind the sun it would about 5 AU away from earth with combined with it's smaller size (compared to the sun) would make it appear much much smaller.

On the other hand would such a burning Jupiter be clearly visible in the night sky for about 50% of each year (it might actually turn out to be a considerable source of light challenging the full moon).

Now I know the nutheads claim that Nibiru would be on a very eccecntric rotation lasting several 1000 years and only gets visible when it's in the inner regions of the solar system. In order for this to work it would be much smaller/dimmer than the average star (which are easily watchable at several lightyears). It would than have to rush onto the sun in a matter of weeks (otherwise it's approach would be possible to watch from earth) AND have a rotation closely related to earth's (cos otherwise it approach could end up coming from "behind").

I don't have to study astrophysics to know thats impossible.

@MikeB
If summerians had precicely predicted date position and magnitude of the Japan quake it would have been ....... yes right coincidence......

We know far to little about these cultures to really understand what they meant with those symbols (for all we know it might have been a sign above a place selling stuffed eagles, a much favored delicatess at those times ) but we do know that they didn't have the means to observe/calculate stellar movements over 1000s of years.

Nostradamus was just your Sunday-Times horroscop done on a greater scale, lot's of confusing predictions mixed meaningless blabble that can be attributed to any event AFTER it happenend.

_________________
- We don't need good ideas, we haven't run out on bad ones yet
- blame Canada

@Kronos

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but we do know that they didn't have the means to observe/calculate stellar movements over 1000s of years.

For someone like you without your advanced technologies it may sound impossible or magic to keep track of the years between periods of great destruction and upheaval.

For people like me keeping track of the sun with the seperate seasons here on earth would be mere kid's play.

Last edited by MikeB on 09-Apr-2011 at 08:20 AM.