@ans
Btw, which card you can recommend, which in current drivers state, have full 2d support (the fastest one, with compositing, with all working stuff) and which will be in the first way supported by the gallium3d on os4 ? HD4650 ?

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@kas1e

ehm...

Sorry but AGP 8x only cards for sure cant be placed on the AGP slot of the A1/Peg2...

And for the PCI...well...can PCI bandwidth be enough for RadeonHD cards?

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@Hans

Quote:

In their defence, AmigaOS 4.x is a lot more than just the Warp3D drivers, so the aos4-core devs have a lot more other things to work on than just 3D graphics. For you 3D is incredibly important, whereas for someone else, having app X work a little better, or USB 2.0, or hardware Y supported is more important. There's always going to be someone telling them that they have their priorities wrong. On top of this there is fixing bugs, porting to new motherboards, etc.

I understand that, but in our world 3D is particoular important, we doesn't have fast hardware on our hands when +20 or -20 FPS are showed just for fun, we try to play normal games with 800 Mhz CPUs !!

On my Sam Flex 800 i get less than 15 FPS on Quake 3, how can i play this game in this situation ??

Last edited by samo79 on 11-Jan-2011 at 09:55 PM.

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@kas1e
Quote:

Btw, which card you can recommend, which in current drivers state, have full 2d support (the fastest one, with compositing, with all working stuff) and which will be in the first way supported by the gallium3d on os4 ? HD4650 ?

I'll be writing a page on card recommendations on my own website. Hopefully I'll have it done before the end of the weekend. The current state of the driver is also on my website. Basically, R5xx cards have full 2d including compositing, whereas R6xx/R7xx cards have 2D blitter but no compositing yet.

I don't know which card series will get 3D first. It depends on a lot of things, including the state of the Gallium drivers.

@Tuxedo

Quote:

And for the PCI...well...can PCI bandwidth be enough for RadeonHD cards?

Short answer, yes. Naturally the lower bandwidth will have an effect, but you'll have an OpenGL 2.0 capable card, whereas your Radeon 9xxx is not.

@samo79

Quote:

samo79 wrote: I understand that, but in our world 3D is particoular important, we doesn't have fast hardware on our hands when +20 or -20 FPS are showed just for fun, we try to play normal games with 800 Mhz CPUs !!

Which is why the decision was made by Hyperion to replace Warp3D with Gallium.

EDIT: Nevertheless, being particularly important in your world doesn't necessarily mean that it's the best idea for developers to focus on that to the cost of other things.

Hans

Last edited by Hans on 11-Jan-2011 at 11:15 PM.

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@Hans

Quote:

Short answer, yes. Naturally the lower bandwidth will have an effect, but you'll have an OpenGL 2.0 capable card, whereas your Radeon 9xxx is not.

We'll see the benchmarks against Radeon9800 AGP and RadeonHD on PCI when Gallium was released and decide what to get :)
There's also to consider that the low CPU speed we have cant get full speed from Graphics card so a too modern gfx card wasnt so needed for our old CPUs...

Meantime...

GOOD WORK! :)

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Quote:

Fab wrote: @kas1e I don't know if it's down to Gallium or to the AROS port, but on AROS, Gallium 3D on a recentish PC (Athlon64 X2 5200 / Geforce GTS 250) didn't give very good results, considering the used hardware.

on barthon 2800+ and FX5900XT gallium is faster then GTS250 and 5200x2.
i have to test quake arena on 5900XT, but looking at phoronix test, seems that Gallium is faster on old gpus...

Last edited by Seiya on 12-Jan-2011 at 12:38 AM.

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@Tuxedo

Quote:

Tuxedo wrote: There's also to consider that the low CPU speed we have cant get full speed from Graphics card so a too modern gfx card wasnt so needed for our old CPUs...

I used to think so, but not any more. The PCI cards are the low-end models of each series (except for the X1550 which is a mid-range card). The mid-range cards of one series usually outperforms the low-end cards of the next series, or even the next several series.** The CPU can probably keep up with the low-end cards in many cases. Regardless, after using these cards this now looks like a non-issue to me.

Hans


** As usual, it's not quite so simple. It will depend on the operations beiing performed, but in many operations - particularly simpler ones such as 2D blitting - older mid-range cards will generally outperform newer low-range ones.

Last edited by Hans on 12-Jan-2011 at 08:10 PM.

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@Hans

Well...
Now I'm really curios to see benchmarks on that boards :)

Any sort of ETA available?

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@kas1e

Quote:

For example, few days ago (5 jan 2011), there is some benchmarks was done on phoronix site

It is improving...

@pavlor

Good news :)

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@pavlor

Not so improving, and mostly just in terms of DRM code of unix itself. Speed of gallium3d on these tests are not so close to Catalyst drivers. But anyway, they works on it, and for sure it will be fine at some point i think.

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@kas1e

Step by step. Small steps are better than nothing.


Radeon HD 4650 is roughly 20 times faster than Radeon 9200, speed increase will be really pleasant even with slow drivers.

@kas1e

Quote:

kas1e wrote: @ans Btw, which card you can recommend, which in current drivers state, have full 2d support (the fastest one, with compositing, with all working stuff) and which will be in the first way supported by the gallium3d on os4 ? HD4650 ?

As promised, my card recommendations can be found here.**

Hans

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@Hans

Thanks!

@Hans

Quote:

Short answer, yes. Naturally the lower bandwidth will have an effect, but you'll have an OpenGL 2.0 capable card, whereas your Radeon 9xxx is not.

You surprise me here Hans, the r300 chip used in Radeon 9700/9800 cards IS OpenGL2.0 compliant, It was the first, so I'll agree that RadeonHD are better, but compatible r300 cards work in the AGP slot without problems (well none that I've found)

Regards
Darren

@Daz

Quote:

Daz wrote: @Hans Quote: Short answer, yes. Naturally the lower bandwidth will have an effect, but you'll have an OpenGL 2.0 capable card, whereas your Radeon 9xxx is not. You surprise me here Hans, the r300 chip used in Radeon 9700/9800 cards IS OpenGL2.0 compliant, It was the first, so I'll agree that RadeonHD are better, but compatible r300 cards work in the AGP slot without problems (well none that I've found)

The R300 chip is partially OpenGL 2.0 compliant. For example, R300 and R400 chipsets do not support branching and loops (see here), which are part of the GLSL specification. I discovered this when working with a Radeon X700 and X800. ATI's GLSL compiler emulated for loops using unrolling; if that fails (e.g., no fixed size loop, or it runs out of program space) then the shader is emulated in software, which is unbearably slow. I know that ATI's drivers claim that it supports OpenGL 2.0, but missing branching and loops is a big deal. I know that it caused me a headache.

Hans

Last edited by Hans on 15-Jan-2011 at 10:57 AM.

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2 months ago I had 32MB VRAM + 512MB RAM with my MicroA1.
Now with Sam460, I have 2GB RAM + 1GB VRAM...

I guess PCI-Express and DDR2 RAM support is the best improvement that has been done on Amiga-land for a long time. It is opening new possibilities for AOS 4.x

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@SinanG

Yeah, but pretty interesting to see actual tests of actual apps :) Can you for example test not the opengl ones (because there is no warp3d driver for as i know for now?) , but just some plain SDL apps, which are was a bit too slow on m1 ?

For example, plain and slow sdl apps for tests can be those diskmags from os4depot:

eurochart48
hugi34
hugi36

Those diskmags are 1024x768, plain SDL, so, speed of video-bus, and cpu are matter here and will be visually detectable. IF you can, test plz it on m1 and on sam460 and give us some words about real-live-current differences (even if result will be not good by any reasson).

Or if you can, make a phone-video, to see how it on m1 , and how it start to be on sam460 with new gfx card.

That will say more than words, for sure :)

PS. If SinanG will by some reasson in silence-mode, and not answer on it, or answer like "i can't because i busy" , then can anyone else, who currently have sam460, do the same test to compare with the any old (m1/sams/peg2) machines ? Pretty interesting.

Last edited by kas1e on 15-Jan-2011 at 11:43 AM.

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@kas1e

Since no OS4.1 for Sam460 out atm I dont think he or someone else can reply to your answer until the OS4.x beta will be released...
Or I've lost some news regarding AmigaOS4.1 for Sam460?

However me too was really curious to get that reply :)

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@Tuxedo

There are some betatesters, who have SAM460.