I am SO VERY VERY VERY curious about how this all will end !

I'm not only waiting full anticipation for the end of this, just to get Amiga things starting up again, but also just as much waiting for what would be te outcome, whatever it is. Just to know...

Mart

_________________
Theres a time to live and a time to die
When its time to meet the maker
Theres a time to live but isnt it strange
That as soon as you're born you're dying

@umisef

I think one issue is where in one place, the $25,000 is declared for ownership but in the Annex, the Friedens are also to be paid some rate for the actual work. So it seems to me that even if Amiga Wherever paid the $25,000 (or mutually agreed upon $24,750), they are still not paying the Friedens (and other contractors) for their work who own the modified sources...

So it seems to me, the $25,000 sum was Hyperion's management/ownership fee and additionally Hyperion feels Amiga Je ne sais quo needs to pay for the contract work...

The sources are the issue here. Amiga can own the OS, but not the source code to it.

Perhaps Amiga is finally realizing that for all the lawyers they have hired, they could have just paid off the money for the contract work that Hyperion is asking for.

I myself ran into a similar situation with a mechanic who had my car in a lein despite the fact that he damaged it and never completed the agreed upon work. I never paid him the extra money, but if I had it would have been way less than what I paid the scoundrel...err...I mean lawyer to get it back from the grease monkey...

@Metalheart

Quote:

I am SO VERY VERY VERY curious about how this all will end !

Well, it looks like it might end in a settlement sometime in October:

http://docs.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/washington/wawdce/2:2007cv00631/143245/115/

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Here for the whimpering end

@jorkany

Quote:

Well, it looks like it might end in a settlement sometime in October:

Interesting.

For the pessimists, that would probably mean a settlement talk, then another 5 years of court hearings

But let's hope for a settlement of some sort. Well, more precisely, of the positive sort.

Steve

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A1200T - OS4.0,OS3.9: 603e PPC 200mhz,060 50mhz, 256mb ram, FastATA MK-III, BVision, 160gb,20gb HDDs

A1200 - OS3.1: Blizzard IV 030, 64mb ram, 400mb HDD

OS4.x - Flying the AMIGA flag

@jorkany

Sounds like Alan Redhouse is off on an extended summer holiday until the end of september.

Maybe he bought a motorhome (RV to you yanks!) with his A1 sales and is touring France!

@Colin_Camper

I think the only thing he got from the A1 experience is an ulcer.

I hope this ends well.

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AmigaOne-XE G3 OS 4.
A4000 PPC
A1200 PPC

@stevieu

A settlement of any sort would be good, even if it means the death of OS4 we'll finally know where we stand.

I'm hoping beyond hope that Amiga Inc has realized that it's much better to be collecting royalties from Hyperion, than it is to be paying the (not exactly cheap) people who are working to make sure they never collect a cent from Hyperion.

Well.. I don't know how this will end.. But what's sure is that it will have a big negative impact on what's left about the Amiga... ie: AmigaOS (classic & NG)... This stupid trial hurts both, not allowing anyone to correctly develop and *spread* Amiga solutions... not to mention the negative image of the Amiga (which was already low, weak, and old)...

As the lawyer initially said, both should have found an agreement instead... But I guess only in the Amiga community people prefer killing each other than cooporeating, which would mean making concessions (something not present into the Amiga's vocabulary...) but also surviving (something the Amiga doesn't care: it's better to keep working toward your personnal interests)...

Commodore didn't need Microsoft to kill itself...

Amiga/Hyperion won't need Microsoft either to kill themselves...

Last edited by Leo on 31-Jul-2008 at 12:21 AM.
Last edited by Leo on 31-Jul-2008 at 12:17 AM.

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http://www.warpdesign.fr/

@fairlanefastback

Quote:

I've read the court docs, which is mind numbing enough at times.

And yet, you failed to take in Olaf's rather explicit statement that he made a copy of the 3.1 sources for Ray Akey of Amiga Inc, right? Because otherwise, you, too, would have been part of the "we" which knows better than to make silly claims about AI not having 3.1 sources to deliver.

Quote:

You can go shove your "flapping your lips" and "is disingenuous" garbage

You were either disingenuous, or had were commenting on things which you *should* and *could* have known about, but didn't.

What's worse, you did so in a manner which suggested to the reader that you *did* know what you were talking about, rather than speculated. Accuse me of using "inside knowledge" all you want, but what you stated directly contradicted the public court docs, which you claim to have read.

Fact is, AI had the sources, as a matter of record. Fact is also that Olaf has, as a matter of record, acknowledged the (Amino) AI's ownership of the original 3.1, and that thus Olaf providing the original 3.1 sources to anyone else can only happen with the permission of and as an agent for the owner of said sources.

And last but not least, fact is that Olaf was *not* paid anything for those original 3.1 sources (the ones you claim Amiga had to supply, but couldn't, thus forcing Hyperion to spend extra money on Olaf). Olaf was (supposed to be) paid (a) for his improvements, and (b) for his CVS hosting duties, as well as (separately) for his contributions to OS4 (TCP/IP stack, FFS, probably others). Again, a matter of record.

So the whole line of argument that you revived was stupid from the very start, because the publicly available documents show it to contradict the facts. Reviving it in the context of "what if AI never owned 3.1?" doesn't make it any less stupid. Quite the contrary, IMO.

@umisef

I know you want to draw me into some quote fest from a bunch of the 115 entries and myriad documents attached to them. You may have a permanent white board up in your living room to track the he said / she said in every document. And maybe you keep re-reading them for fun often. I don't. Filing 26 said they needed to enter into a separate agreement with Olaf to get 3.1 sources dating back to 1994. As I mentioned before, if AI had the 3.1 sources its even worse, as they were required to produce them. They also were required to produce 3.5 and 3.9, and again in filing 26 because they did not Hyperion said they had to enter into dozens of other agreements with related developers in its place because Amiga, though promising such code had never secured it from H&P. If I am not recalling something that is pertinent that was proved out otherwise you can simply share it. Whats so bloody difficult about that?

I pity you for the fact that you seem to have some need to feel superior on a message board, throwing around "stupid", "disingenuous", etc so lightly. You do such things when conversing with many people on here. Its sad really. The worse shame of it is you appear to be technically brilliant in products you have made. But thats no excuse for being that plain rude.

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 31-Jul-2008 at 06:01 AM.
Last edited by fairlanefastback on 31-Jul-2008 at 06:00 AM.
Last edited by fairlanefastback on 31-Jul-2008 at 05:58 AM.

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Pegasos2 G3 running AOS 4.1 and MorphOS 2.0
Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

Hey you two. Shut up this childish bickering before I get mad. And you won't like me when I'm mad.

(I wear pants on my head and stick pencils up my nostrils while shouting "wibble")

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"Anyone with a modicum of reasonableness may realize that it is like comparing the ride in the world to descend the stairs to catch the milk in the house."

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@fairlanefastback

Quote:

They also were required to produce 3.5 and 3.9, and again in filing 26 because they did not Hyperion said they had to enter into dozens of other agreements with related developers in its place because Amiga, though promising such code had never secured it from H&P.

I dont think Amiga Inc could ever acquire full source code to H&P 3.5/3.9 because parts of it were licensed from other developers or contained Aminet stuff. Obviously Amiga Inc could not get the TCP/IP stack from 3.9 (for which H&P failed to pay anyway...), ClassAct (renamed to Reaction) was licensed from someone else, 3.9 didnt have any integrated RTG system, AHI is 3rd party contribution, WarpUp and Warp3D was from H&P and 3.5/3.9 did not add new APIs to the Kickstart. 3.5/3.9 were simply 3.1 repackaged with some Aminet pacthes and tools without any true improvements. Hyperion by not having 3.5/3.9 "sources" they could not lose much there...

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Amiga Developer
Amiga 500, Efika, Mac Mini and PowerBook

@itix

Quote:

3.5/3.9 did not add new APIs to the Kickstart

That's not completely true, doing a simple Quote:

fgrep -r "(V4" . | grep -v "(V4[)01]"

on the OS 3.9 NDK's autodoc drawer will proves you otherwise, I agree there is not so much (using wc I get at least 160 improvements over 3.1, and that's without taking into account improvements newer than the NDK, i.e. those from the BoingBalls) but hey that was 'only' 3.5 and 3.9 was there so many improvements between 3.0 and 3.1 ?

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AOS 4.1 : I dream it, Hyperion did it !
Now dreaming AOS 4.2...
Thank you to all devs involved for this great job !

@abalaban

Lets see... Workbench got few nice additions (and admittely WB was updated for 3.9) but after that there are only very few improvements. Reaction is nearly same as ClassAct and there are only cosmetic changes to datatypes and ASL. Enhanced picture.dt was already available at Aminet, so were various ASL replacements. AVL trees are new APIs but H&P screwed it up of course by inserting those functions to Exec where it does not really belong.

3.9 had also large disk support which is bonus but more or less "they made it and H&P screwed it up" But I am terribly offtopic here...

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Amiga Developer
Amiga 500, Efika, Mac Mini and PowerBook