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NutsAboutAmiga
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Re: The second Dark Times Posted on 1-Aug-2007 22:00:26
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Joined: 9-Jun-2004 Posts: 12795
From: Norway | | |
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stevieu
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Re: The second Dark Times Posted on 1-Aug-2007 22:01:44
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Joined: 23-Apr-2003 Posts: 647
From: England, UK | | |
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| @ironfist
If you're so sure...there are still people buying 'classic' Amiga hardware on ebay for over £450 a go. I know that's probably from a collector's point of view, but still... nostalgia is a powerful thing (emotion) to build upon. Momentum... (I've heard that somewhere before haha).
You need a strong foothold before you can make any moves. As a hobby OS though, it will always be fun... and that's all that counts at the end of the day. It's just what everyone else is missing out on
It's too frustrating to keep talking about it haha. One of those things...
Computing has turned mundane, as has society. Technology is advancing and you can't even 'feel it'.
Steve Last edited by stevieu on 01-Aug-2007 at 10:04 PM.
_________________ A1200T - OS4.0,OS3.9: 603e PPC 200mhz,060 50mhz, 256mb ram, FastATA MK-III, BVision, 160gb,20gb HDDs
A1200 - OS3.1: Blizzard IV 030, 64mb ram, 400mb HDD
OS4.x - Flying the AMIGA flag |
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yoodoo2
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Re: The second Dark Times Posted on 1-Aug-2007 22:05:54
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Joined: 4-Aug-2003 Posts: 1332
From: Stourbridge, UK | | |
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| @ironfist
Not donating. Buying. A proper product. Around 2000 bought A1s in their various incarnations, around 1,000 bought Pegasos. Many more bought Amithlon or Amiga Forever.
The many thousands of people who sign up to Runescape, World of Warcraft, Credit Expert, Porn channels etc show that a monthly subscription can be a workable model.
Or, release 6 monthly updates at £25 a pop.
If a useable product were out there, I think many would be surprised at how many could be sold. Maintaining that over a number of years is of course another matter entirely. _________________ Happiness is mandatory. MindSpace: MindMaps and UML diagrams for OS4
We ran 5 Recursion Computer Fairs before hitting the exit condition |
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yoodoo2
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Re: The second Dark Times Posted on 1-Aug-2007 22:07:25
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Joined: 4-Aug-2003 Posts: 1332
From: Stourbridge, UK | | |
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| @NutsAboutAmiga
Indeed. That's the sad part. Without the $X million needed to buy out Kouri and friends, there is a viable (hobbyist) business waiting to be tapped. _________________ Happiness is mandatory. MindSpace: MindMaps and UML diagrams for OS4
We ran 5 Recursion Computer Fairs before hitting the exit condition |
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stevieu
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Re: The second Dark Times Posted on 1-Aug-2007 22:12:43
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Joined: 23-Apr-2003 Posts: 647
From: England, UK | | |
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| @yoodoo2
I totally agree...
If done right, there's mucho potential...but this is Amiga we're talking about.
If Bill and co had done things right when they said they would, then maybe we'd have that foothold...but, it's a little late now, in many respects.
As for a hobbyist OS/market though, of course there's a chance if something was done about it properly. There are thousands of ex-Amiga owners that still feel so fondly about the machines they used to own... we all know PC owners do not feel the same way, and that's what they are now...missing something that once meant something to them, and that's exactly what the original Amiga vision set out to do.
It's all frustrating beyond words as per usual.
Steve _________________ A1200T - OS4.0,OS3.9: 603e PPC 200mhz,060 50mhz, 256mb ram, FastATA MK-III, BVision, 160gb,20gb HDDs
A1200 - OS3.1: Blizzard IV 030, 64mb ram, 400mb HDD
OS4.x - Flying the AMIGA flag |
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itix
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Re: The second Dark Times Posted on 1-Aug-2007 22:30:29
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Elite Member |
Joined: 22-Dec-2004 Posts: 3398
From: Freedom world | | |
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| @yoodoo2
An average Amiga product sells 80-120 copies, 150 if it is huge success.
_________________ Amiga Developer Amiga 500, Efika, Mac Mini and PowerBook |
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ssolie
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Re: The second Dark Times Posted on 1-Aug-2007 22:36:21
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Elite Member |
Joined: 10-Mar-2003 Posts: 2755
From: Alberta, Canada | | |
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| @itix Quote:
An average Amiga product sells 80-120 copies, 150 if it is huge success. |
And 83.5% of statistics are made up on the spot.
Guys, if you want to spew out numbers at each other at least attempt to back it up with something._________________ ExecSG Team Lead |
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NutsAboutAmiga
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Re: The second Dark Times Posted on 1-Aug-2007 22:48:40
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Joined: 9-Jun-2004 Posts: 12795
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itix
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Re: The second Dark Times Posted on 1-Aug-2007 23:08:58
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Joined: 22-Dec-2004 Posts: 3398
From: Freedom world | | |
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| @ssolie
Figures are not made up. If you dont believe it I cant help you. I can only say get in touch with interesting people and ask. I can not give quotes because numbers are confidential.
_________________ Amiga Developer Amiga 500, Efika, Mac Mini and PowerBook |
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yoodoo2
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Re: The second Dark Times Posted on 1-Aug-2007 23:15:38
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Joined: 4-Aug-2003 Posts: 1332
From: Stourbridge, UK | | |
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| @itix
That's presumably software running on Amiga OS, not the OS itself.
There would probably need to be a staggered range of products. A full featured desktop for us "hard-core" would be £50 on a limited range of hardware; a cut-down OS with a bundle of old-school games might only pull in £5-£10 per unit once other costs were factored in. Hardware companies like Genesi, A-Cube and anyone else interested would pay for hardware specific drivers to add value to their products.
Of course there are fewer people wanting to pay out for Amiga OS. However, I remain optimistic that an available product would generate a reasonable amount of sales. Possibly more than it might have 5 years ago: a lot more of us are older with a bit of disposable income for hobbies. _________________ Happiness is mandatory. MindSpace: MindMaps and UML diagrams for OS4
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yoodoo2
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Re: The second Dark Times Posted on 1-Aug-2007 23:22:57
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Joined: 4-Aug-2003 Posts: 1332
From: Stourbridge, UK | | |
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| @itix The problem with quoting sales figures for applications is that they are almost by definition a small subsection of the installed user base.
Big applications (eg Hollywood, PageStream, Audio Evolution) are aimed at a minority of users and relatively expensive for a hobby OS with little means of sharing files across platforms in an easy and transparent manner.
Games, again are very much a matter of taste and therefore not universally bought.
I (admittedly optimistically) reckon that 5000 users would support a small OS team. To support any form of meaningful market for application developers, we'd proabably need 50,000. However, not all application developers are in it for the money... _________________ Happiness is mandatory. MindSpace: MindMaps and UML diagrams for OS4
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NutsAboutAmiga
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Re: The second Dark Times Posted on 1-Aug-2007 23:29:11
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umisef
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Re: The second Dark Times Posted on 1-Aug-2007 23:30:59
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Joined: 19-Jun-2005 Posts: 1714
From: Melbourne, Australia | | |
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| @yoodoo2
Quote:
Around 2000 bought A1s in their various incarnations, |
Uhm, according to Evert Carton's testimony, Hyperion has shipped "more or less 1000" copies of OS4 (see docket 54 in current lawsuit, page 3). As the A1 is pretty much useless without OS4, I suspect your estimate is high by a factor of 2. |
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umisef
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Re: The second Dark Times Posted on 1-Aug-2007 23:52:54
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Joined: 19-Jun-2005 Posts: 1714
From: Melbourne, Australia | | |
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| @NutsAboutAmiga
Quote:
There are bout 500 registered member on Amigas.ne |
And less than half of them even bother to log in in any given month.... less than 2/3 log in in any given three-month period.
And yet you estimate that 2/3 of Amigans.net resgistered users bought DvPlayer? Why? Even if all members on amigans.net actually were A1 owners (they are not), and every member was enough of a fan to log in every week (less than 1/3 in reality), why would you expect a market penetration of 66% for a product which may play your DVDs on your computer, badly, after you install some potentially legally questionable libraries, for the price of a cheap stand-alone DVD player? Or is it a product that plays digital video streams, just like mplayer, only not for free?
I am not putting down dvplayer here. I am just pointing out why expecting 2/3 of A1 owners to fork over US$28 for it is entirely unrealistic.
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itix
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Re: The second Dark Times Posted on 2-Aug-2007 0:05:46
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Elite Member |
Joined: 22-Dec-2004 Posts: 3398
From: Freedom world | | |
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| @yoodoo2
You have one error in your brainstorming. To sell 5000 copies of operating system software you must also sell 5000 units of hardware dongles, aka computers. Each year.
If you meant only updates you are out of luck, still. First there is a piracy issue. Second not everyone is willing to update. Third userbase is not large enough. To get there you must run company at loss few years first.
More you think about it more obvious it becomes that you must get rid of the HW dongle.
_________________ Amiga Developer Amiga 500, Efika, Mac Mini and PowerBook |
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itix
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Re: The second Dark Times Posted on 2-Aug-2007 0:11:23
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Elite Member |
Joined: 22-Dec-2004 Posts: 3398
From: Freedom world | | |
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| @NutsAboutAmiga
Amiga software in general. OS updates and (availability of new) hardware winds up sales but it lasts only month or two. The software didnt sell very well even 7 years ago when HP was still around.
_________________ Amiga Developer Amiga 500, Efika, Mac Mini and PowerBook |
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yoodoo2
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Re: The second Dark Times Posted on 2-Aug-2007 9:22:43
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Super Member |
Joined: 4-Aug-2003 Posts: 1332
From: Stourbridge, UK | | |
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| @umisef
Well, Hyperion's accounting isn't wonderfully accurate. Plus, Carton is probably not including developers, EarlyBirds etc who didn't get the full packaged deal without forking out a little extra. Plus many A1s have changed hands, demonstrating additional demand (although some people have more than 1 machine).
I'm willing to split the difference and call it 1500 _________________ Happiness is mandatory. MindSpace: MindMaps and UML diagrams for OS4
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yoodoo2
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Re: The second Dark Times Posted on 2-Aug-2007 9:26:21
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Super Member |
Joined: 4-Aug-2003 Posts: 1332
From: Stourbridge, UK | | |
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| @itix
I couldn't agree more. Hence the "range of products" mentioned above. I believe there should be a "basic" OS version that covers a wide range of hardware platforms, with additional features paid for by those wanting to bundle the OS with hardware designed for those of us who want to use something a little different. _________________ Happiness is mandatory. MindSpace: MindMaps and UML diagrams for OS4
We ran 5 Recursion Computer Fairs before hitting the exit condition |
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ironfist
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Re: The second Dark Times Posted on 2-Aug-2007 10:57:48
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Cult Member |
Joined: 26-Dec-2004 Posts: 770
From: Pegasos.org | | |
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| yoodoo2: Where the hell did you get the 1000 Pegasos figure from?!
The total sales of Pegasos are strictly con- fidential -- even I don't know them.. |
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yoodoo2
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Re: The second Dark Times Posted on 2-Aug-2007 11:12:27
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Super Member |
Joined: 4-Aug-2003 Posts: 1332
From: Stourbridge, UK | | |
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| @ironfist
A random number generator. _________________ Happiness is mandatory. MindSpace: MindMaps and UML diagrams for OS4
We ran 5 Recursion Computer Fairs before hitting the exit condition |
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