@Hannibal_Smith

Quote:

What was that $2million spent on? Seriously.

Who knows? But 'willing to fund the company a while longer' doesn't make much sense either. It's 2 years on and Amiga have still produced next-to-nothing except enter in to a costly stadium deal (of all things) and a costly legal case that is beginning to look increasingly likely they are going to loose.

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Sam

@wolfe

I personally think it's do-or-die for both companies, that's why we're seeing this level of ferocity. If Hyperion loses, they will lose all rights to the last few years' worth of work, and sink without a trace. If AInc loses, they will have nothing to sell because their Tao-based business vanished when Tao went insolvent, so OS4 is their only possible source of income. Unless something unexpected happens (maybe along the lines of a buyout or some form of olive branch), I fully expect the loser in this fight to sink without a trace.

@wolfe & @sam

Agreed!

TrevorDick

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No, I don't need no reason, I'm just breezin'

@CodeSmith

I'm still wishing Hyperion will win the case. I don't believe a word of Billy Boy stories.

If they win, time will tell if I've wished for the right thing.,

In any case hope the OS4 devs will get fully rewarded for their work.

@CodeSmith

If Amiga Inc D can prove they are the rightful owner - they will win.

If they can't, but Itec can, they win, maybe not as good.

If this blows up into a fireball of fraud - Amiga W - all assets will sell to pay those bills. The contract is null and void. Hyperion has invested in nothing. And who ever gets it wins.

Hyperion launched this attack good, so good they might have missed shooting themself in the foot and hit the head . . . When traversing a slippery slope its a good idea to make sure if you slip, the impact won't be to damaging - this one has spikes all over the bottom. D O O M . . .

I really hope they know what they are getting themselves into . . .

It seems as if this is the " If I'm Going Down I'm Taking You With Me " form of SUICIDE.

The only good light I see ATM for Hyperion if FRAUD alleged plays out, is someone with capital, friendly to Hyperion (ie willing to cut a deal instead of war) gets the IP.

If not BOTH companies are TOAST.

Oh, and this will lead to multiple court cases, not just this one. So, the OS will not be making a grand showing for years to come as per the direction it is heading now.

They really need to cut a deal . . .

I'm happy that at least Morph OS 2.0 is coming . . .

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Avatar babe - Monica Bellucci.

@wolfe

Both companies will also loose in the long term - the one who doesnt get OS 4 will sink, and the other either wont have the funds to continue, or will be disliked so much that people simply wont buy OS 4 from them.

I also fear that should Amiga inc win, with so many different developers involved that the CVS tree will "accidentally" go up in smoke, and all sources will be lost in an "If I cant have it, then you cant either" attitude.. Suffice to say, the longer it goes on, there can only really be losers from this court case - and we'll be the biggest ones..

@wolfe

Quote:

If Amiga Inc D can prove they are the rightful owner - they will win. If they can't, but Itec can, they win, maybe not as good.

Not really, Hyperion's defense/counterattack has a bunch of "even if" clauses that AInc will need to address. I wonder why AInc hasn't come up with something similar yet.

Quote:

If this blows up into a fireball of fraud - Amiga W - all assets will sell to pay those bills. The contract is null and void. Hyperion has invested in nothing. And who ever gets it wins.

Hyperion's already taken care of that, by naming themselves creditors. If the judge agrees with both the fraud allegations and Hyperion's status as creditors, Hyperion should be able to work out a deal with the other creditors, since they've said all they really care about are the AmigaOS trademarks. Presumably the other creditors will be more concerned about recuperating their losses and will "settle" for the more general Amiga trademarks, patents and cash from sold physical assets.

Quote:

Hyperion launched this attack good, so good they might have missed shooting themself in the foot and hit the head . . . When traversing a slippery slope its a good idea to make sure if you slip, the impact won't be to damaging - this one has spikes all over the bottom. D O O M . . . I really hope they know what they are getting themselves into . . . It seems as if this is the " If I'm Going Down I'm Taking You With Me " form of SUICIDE.

I don't think this is "I'm taking you down with me", it's more of a mexican standoff. AInc's initial claims were that Hyperion was entitled to nothing in exchange for OS4, because they were colluding with ACube and so they'd broken the contract. This would have meant bankruptcy for Hyperion, with no income and years worth of debts to pay back. Hyperion reacted by countering with something equally harmful to AInc, in an obvious play to force them to the negotiating table - why else would Hyperion want to deny AInc all rights to the name "Amiga" when all they care about is AmigaOS?

Quote:

Oh, and this will lead to multiple court cases, not just this one. So, the OS will not be making a grand showing for years to come as per the direction it is heading now.

I'm not sure about that. Appeal, maybe. Neither company can afford to drag this out for years; lawyers are not cheap.

@Bobsonsirjonny

Quote:

I also fear that should Amiga inc win, with so many different developers involved that the CVS tree will "accidentally" go up in smoke, and all sources will be lost in an "If I cant have it, then you cant either" attitude.. Suffice to say, the longer it goes on, there can only really be losers from this court case - and we'll be the biggest ones..

That is one of my biggest fears too. Even if Amiga Inc manage to find people with the skills to rewrite those (and there can't be that many "senior level" amiga coders left), it will still take at least a year for that code to reach the level of stability the current version has now. By then, the initial customer pool will probably number just a few hundred.

@Hannibal_Smith

Quote:

What was that $2million spent on? Seriously.

Over the course of a few years it would be very easy to spend that amount simply paying salaries, bills, and lawyers. Say if you spread that out over 2002-2005, you're talking about spending $400,000US/year just to keep the corporate office open. Not unbelivable, but not terribly efficient either when you see what they have to show for it now.

Plaz

@Bobsonsirjonny

Quote:

Bobsonsirjonny wrote: I also fear that should Amiga inc win, with so many different developers involved that the CVS tree will "accidentally" go up in smoke, and all sources will be lost in an "If I cant have it, then you cant either" attitude.. Suffice to say, the longer it goes on, there can only really be losers from this court case - and we'll be the biggest ones..

That has crossed my mind many times. But then again, when Amiga were negotiating to pay Hyperion the $2 Million they also said that they wanted to buy out the contracts of the OS4 contractors, which means they would be paid for their work. Bill M even stated in one of the last interviews when asked about OS4 developers being paid, that they "better be getting paid" or something similar.

Keep in mind that Amiga want the Friedens on their OS staff according to what we have learned from the McEwen/Freidens chat log, along with the 25Q interview from AO. If Amiga wins, I'm sure the first priority will be to get the OS4 developers under contract and paid in full. I don't see any other way for the court to grant them the source code, and Amiga have acknowledged that the developers need to be paid to secure the code.

@Bobsonsirjonny

Quote:

I also fear that should Amiga inc win, with so many different developers involved that the CVS tree will "accidentally" go up in smoke

It's possible (though awkward - CVS is very primitive in this respect) for anyone with access to a CVS tree to create a complete copy of the tree, including history. And, if there's one thing developers hate, it's losing the only existing copy of your source. Whatever happens there'll be people out there with copies of the code, even if they don't have any especially legitimate reason for it.

@CodeSmith

[quote
Hyperion's already taken care of that, by naming themselves creditors. If the judge agrees with both the fraud allegations and Hyperion's status as creditors, Hyperion should be able to work out a deal with the other creditors, since they've said all they really care about are the AmigaOS trademarks. Presumably the other creditors will be more concerned about recuperating their losses and will "settle" for the more general Amiga trademarks, patents and cash from sold physical assets.[/quote]

Wishful thinking, even though I would like to see this happen,

Unfortunately it will not work like that. The assets will be auctioned off to settle debts of the other case. Any monies above and beyond that owed will go into Amiga W wallet. But, this case will not decide that case. If Hyperion is thought to be a justified creditor, they will have to take that up in a new case Hyperion VS Amiga W. Remember, Amiga W is not a part of this case via representation. This case A D vs H will be settled first. Then H vs A W will begin. This judge cannot determine the fate of property belonging to a party not involved in this case. That means if it belongs to Amiga W, then the Amiga W case will have to be re-opened or a new suit filed in conjuction.

You also fail to see that right now the Amiga OS and its trademarks are probably the most valuable asset. hence Auction . . .

The court has already ruled in the A W case, that would put Hyperion behind those already seeking relief.

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Avatar babe - Monica Bellucci.

@Bobsonsirjonny

Quote:

Bobsonsirjonny wrote: @wolfe Both companies will also loose in the long term - the one who doesnt get OS 4 will sink, and the other either wont have the funds to continue, or will be disliked so much that people simply wont buy OS 4 from them. I also fear that should Amiga inc win, with so many different developers involved that the CVS tree will "accidentally" go up in smoke, and all sources will be lost in an "If I cant have it, then you cant either" attitude.. Suffice to say, the longer it goes on, there can only really be losers from this court case - and we'll be the biggest ones..

I Agree . . . That's why I've wished for cooler heads to prevail. But, there aren't any . .

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Avatar babe - Monica Bellucci.

@wolfe

Quote:

You also fail to see that right now the Amiga OS and its trademarks are probably the most valuable asset.

I disagree. The name "Amiga" is remembered the same as the name "Commodore", and can be used the same way (to sell gaming related hardware and/or software). That is what Amiga Inc has been doing. AmigaOS, on the other hand, is fairly unknown. This is for two reasons: 1. Most Amiga owners in the 80s and early 90s used their systems to play games and so never really did much beyond booting games; 2. even those who did use their Amigas for serious uses knew what we call AmigaOS as "Workbench".

@Bobsonsirjonny

Quote:

Bobsonsirjonny wrote: I also fear that should Amiga inc win, with so many different developers involved that the CVS tree will "accidentally" go up in smoke, and all sources will be lost in an "If I cant have it, then you cant either" attitude.. Suffice to say, the longer it goes on, there can only really be losers from this court case - and we'll be the biggest ones..

http://moobunny.dreamhosters.com/cgi/mbmessage.pl/amiga/144337.shtml

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"If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you." - Oscar Wilde

@T_Bone

The source code is not the real "crown jewels" here - it's the people who wrote it. If these programmers decide for whatever reason they don't want to help Amiga Inc, what are Amiga Inc going to do? it's not like experienced programmers who both know AmigaOS and have the time to spare grow on trees.